A larger new update package has been just installed to AirwaySim v.1.3. Since this change affects the regular usage of all users we're posting a separate announcement of this.
The used aircraft market concept has changed, and it's now based on 'phone calls' to the market dealers. Each airline is given 7 phone calls per week to the market and they can use them at any time at player's discretion.
A call to the market means a loading of the list of available aircraft for sale at the used market. When player calls to the market he is given a fresh list of aircraft that are for sale or lease, and the player can then use his time to browse and search the listings to find the desired aircraft to buy or lease. This change eliminates the need to sit and watch for the market since effectively constant reloading is impossible since each user is given 7 'reloads' per game week.
Please make sure you clear the cache of your browser or force the page to reload since most of the script and styling files and changed and the functions will not work if your browser caches the old files.
For more details about the features please see the forum's changelog thread. Manual will be also soon updated to reflect the changes.
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,26356.msg176340.html#msg176340
Looks pretty good so far with one huge exception: I hate the fact that the "Market Price" disappeared. There is just no indication if the aircraft is being bought or leased at discount or premium over the normal market rate for the aircraft.
So I have to buy the aircraft, get it delivered to find out if I overpaid, and how much I overpaid. I have been playing for some time, and I can make some fairly reasonable estimates. New players however are going to be completely lost, never having a clue what hit them, why they went under if they were leasing aircraft at totally inflated price.
Also, if you recall, we have no idea about the value of the aircraft we are leasing, if you are leasing at a fair price or at a huge premium, or a discount. Only successful players who own their aircraft will know this information, from prior experience, and from other aircraft they already owned.
Again, I have no idea what is gained from hiding this information from used market and from the aircraft currently on lease.
I believe this is the same thing: https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,34458.msg182044.html#new
Quote from: samiIn future a/c "value" will have two meanings; the bookkeeping value at the airline's accounting dept (=linear yearly deductions based on how much it originally costed), and the market value when sold (= dynamic, based on how much users are willing to pay for it). Currently used "value" is only an arbitrary calculated figure resembling the a/c initial price vs. age, and is not realistic so it will change over time.
(To help players spot a good/bad deal on the market a certain advisor style feature is also thought.)
I agree with the others who have mentioned it, the bookkeeping value should be shown on the plane's info page, along with the selling price. That provides roughly the same info as the yet to be implemented advisor feature, and I'd say it's pretty important to have that available.
2 other things: first is a minor pedant, the picture you put in the 1.3 thread shows 'costs on delivery' = 6,708,254. That amount isn't paid on delivery, it's paid on ordering. So it should say 'costs on placing order', or something similar. Otherwise it implies I can order the plane now, but only pay the 6.7 million for the c-check when it is delivered.
And a question, how will the 7 call limit work on week 1/day 1 of the game? The used market will still refresh 10+ times on day 1, because of the huge demand, yes? Do we get 7 calls per ~4 hours realtime, as we will the rest of the game? Or do we only get 7 calls for all of the 24 hour day 1, and the remainder of week 1, which will likely mean some players will simply miss out on getting their preferred plane type for at least the first game week.
When the aircraft has C check in around 1 month, the font is yellow and hard to read.
Also, I ordered a A333 and configured it, BEFORE it would take 3 weeks to deliver, but now its 2 weeks even for very large airplane.
Edit. Also, Is there a new limit on used AC leased? I have leased 3 used planes so far, but now it already says personnel too busy arranging blah blah blah.
Quote from: kevin.yeung on September 28, 2011, 11:15:46 PM
Edit. Also, Is there a new limit on used AC leased? I have leased 3 used planes so far, but now it already says personnel too busy arranging blah blah blah.
The announcement says that the first two planes now arrive instantly on startup, and that the new limit is now 2 planes per day/3 planes per week.
HORRIBLE UPDATE!
If its not broke dont fix it... especially mid game when there are mega airlines that can now dominate the game even further while the smaller airlines dont have a chance to catch up or expand quickly to fend off a larger airline.
The search is absolutely horrible now and almost pointless... The previous one was much better.
Having come into the game late, I actually find it much easier to get the planes I want. Maybe i was just lucky, but i just went to the used market first time and there they were - probably as the market hadn't been constantly visited by the same few all day who plundered everything useful they could find.
A great addition and will definately even things up when the new game worlds start.
Quote from: flightsimer on September 29, 2011, 02:14:03 AM
the smaller airlines dont have a chance to catch up or expand quickly to fend off a larger airline.
You obviously have missed the whole point of the changes. But, everyone is allowed to have an opinion....
Quote from: kevin.yeung on September 28, 2011, 11:15:46 PM
Also, I ordered a A333 and configured it, BEFORE it would take 3 weeks to deliver, but now its 2 weeks even for very large airplane.
Keep that, that at least levels out a bit how crappy the rest of the update is....
--> crappy such as this:
Quote from: kevin.yeung on September 28, 2011, 11:15:46 PM
Also, Is there a new limit on used AC leased? I have leased 3 used planes so far, but now it already says personnel too busy arranging blah blah blah.
Quote from: sami on September 29, 2011, 08:21:15 AM
You obviously have missed the whole point of the changes. But, everyone is allowed to have an opinion....
Actually he is RIGHT!
Talking about the 3 a/c limit... which limits the growth of smaller airlines with no financial capability to reach a/c on the new market by another 50%.... so this is a double FAIL -shooting off long-term players AND n00bs-
Sami, this feature is the worst you ever put in....
Quote from: Jona L. on September 29, 2011, 10:16:20 AM
Actually he is RIGHT!
Talking about the 3 a/c limit... which limits the growth of smaller airlines with no financial capability to reach a/c on the new market by another 50%.... so this is a double FAIL -shooting off long-term players AND n00bs-
Sami, this feature is the worst you ever put in....
IMHO, this feature prevents players from big airlines to pull all decent a/c out of the market until new palyers can buy them.
Since everyone is allowed only 7 phone calls a week, it will limit accuracy of the information, so smaller player have a bit more time to purchase their a/c.
BTW, the a/c limit has always existed...
Take it as a way to give a equal chance to everyone !
As Sami just said : "everyone is allowed to have an opinion".
Cheers
Flobacca
Jona give it a rest already. You do not have to spam the same thing to every possible thread, and your point is taken. But it won't be changed.
Thanks sami for adding the filters back.
Quote from: Flobacca on September 29, 2011, 10:56:40 AM
BTW, the a/c limit has always existed...
I don't know if there was a change since I left AWS 2 month before, but the used aircraft limit was 2 aircraft per day and 6 aircraft per week - that's also not an estimate, the limit of 6 aircraft per week was heavily used in nearly every gameworld I participated by me and others, but mostly later in the game when selling aircraft to alliance mates (for example: 757 to schro in DotM2).
Just to avoid posts like "the limit was always 4" or something like that.
However, what bothers me most is that the limit is three now. Two would be better than have an uneven number :/ It's like people tuning the volume to 41 or 47 - brrrrrraaahhh.
Message from Used Aircraft Center
Sichuan CityFlyer has purchased your Boeing 737-900ER aircraft for a sum of 135 161 000 USD. The aircraft has now left your fleet and is now flying with the new owner.
Thank you for using the Used Aircraft Center.
Is he the latest victim of new system?
Quote from: Peanutoil on September 29, 2011, 02:28:53 PM
Message from Used Aircraft Center
Sichuan CityFlyer has purchased your Boeing 737-900ER aircraft for a sum of 135 161 000 USD. The aircraft has now left your fleet and is now flying with the new owner.
Thank you for using the Used Aircraft Center.
Is he the latest victim of new system?
Awesome...now if someone would buy that A320 on the market lol
Quote from: kevin.yeung on September 29, 2011, 02:46:58 PM
Awesome...now if someone would buy that A320 on the market lol
Buying may be a little tougher, but if you had a lease option, you could lease it for whatever price you want, since now, the potential customers have no idea what the "fair" price is....
The filter's not working properly. I put in Boeing 737-6789 and get the entire used market (or what I assume is the entire market) - starting with Airbus.
Also, before the filters went in it remembered your last search and had that already listed as your new 'default.' That was nice but has now disappeared.
Quote from: sami on September 29, 2011, 08:21:15 AM
You obviously have missed the whole point of the changes. But, everyone is allowed to have an opinion....
what was that? to take a good user interface and make it now into a complicated interface that allows airlines to cheat any airline by allowing them to set the price to whatever they want and not have the value of the aircraft shown for an airline to determine if its a good buy/lease? Or the fact that you still cant just filter a Manufacturer but instead now have to filter each individual aircraft famly?
you also took away one of the biggest parts of being in an alliance.
Now granted you did add back most of the filters, which I thank you for, but can u add the Manufacturers filter back as well?
If you want to slow airline growth down, thats fine. However i highly object to how you did it midgame. My airline has 36 aircraft, but still isnt big enough to be really ordering from the manufactures, therefore i must rely on the used maket. You have taken half of my airlines potential away while all the other majors can simply afford to just order them new. The Big airlines in MT5 still have the advantage and its now an even larger one than ever.
I honestly dont see any benefits to this change at this time though.
Quote from: flightsimer on September 29, 2011, 06:53:05 PM
what was that? to make a good user interface now acomplicated interface that allows airlines to cheat any airline by allowing them to set the price to whatever they want yet the value of the aircraft isnt shown better than before? Or the fact that you still cant just filter a Manufacturer but instead now have to filter each individual aircraft famly?
Filtering on fleet (aircraft family) is a step in a good direction.
Removing market value (before other components are in place) is a very bad idea.
3 / week limit - I have mixed feelings about it, I think on balance it is not a good idea.
But "Calls to Broker" concept is a great idea, IMO
Calls to Broker was the biggest change programming-wise, and I think it was an effort well spent. Other things people object to can still be fine tuned (hopefully) - while keeping all the good stuff.
Quote from: flightsimer on September 29, 2011, 06:53:05 PM
you also took away one of the biggest parts of being in an alliance.
Maybe I missed this. How does the change affect the alliance play?
Now granted you did add back most of the filters, which thanks, but can u add the Manufacturers filter back as well?
Quote from: wtdawg on September 29, 2011, 06:00:35 PM
The filter's not working properly. I put in Boeing 737-6789 and get the entire used market (or what I assume is the entire market) - starting with Airbus.
Just reload the page, you have still some old files in browser cache.
I have not made any calls in the last 8 or so, may I know why is it that I get a message saying that I have no calls left to the used market this week?
Can anyone explain, please?
Thanks
Quote from: zilchster on September 30, 2011, 01:53:30 AM
I have not made any calls in the last 8 or so, may I know why is it that I get a message saying that I have no calls left to the used market this week?
Can anyone explain, please?
Thanks
I think the counter is not resetting. Hopefully, Sami will take a look at it soon...
Jumbo I beieve one of biggest parts of being in anallaince is the benefits u receive with respect to aircraft. For example in mt4 I was able to get over 50 aircraft q400's and c series aircraft all through alliance members.
However rethinking about it u really won't lose it if the 3 ac rule stays because u have 7 calls. But when I wAs first thinking about it if you have 6 airlines all feeding you one aircraft then you would use all of your calls just on updating to get alliance members planes.
Now if you reduce the numbers of calls this does come into affect.
I don't see any advantage with the calls though. It just means that all the people Who used f5 only get to do it once every day... Might as well just have it update once every day in that case.
F
Sorry for any major spellig errors or punctuation... Using iPad which sucks for typing....
Quote from: zilchster on September 30, 2011, 01:53:30 AM
I have not made any calls in the last 8 or so, may I know why is it that I get a message saying that I have no calls left to the used market this week?
Can anyone explain, please?
Thanks
I am experiencing the same problem. I am positive I made no calls to the used market between last Sunday night (12 Dec 2010) of this game week and Wednesday (15 Dec 2010). Despite this, my call balance came down to zero on Thursday (16 Dec 2010) after I made just a couple of calls!
According to the rules the counter resets on Sunday night -- is there a glitch?
GJ
This change needs to be completely abolished for the first day of a new game... Everyone at my base airport has DC-6's but none were on the market when i entered the game... I waited a couple of hours and used the call and still none... So now im screwed with aircraft choices...
Quote from: flightsimer on October 01, 2011, 01:32:15 AM
This change needs to be completely abolished for the first day of a new game... Everyone at my base airport has DC-6's but none were on the market when i entered the game... I waited a couple of hours and used the call and still none... So now im screwed with aircraft choices...
Bk and get another 7 calls?
Quote from: flightsimer on October 01, 2011, 05:40:31 AM
u only get 1 call per day
You get 7 per week. I've used multiple calls today, since there were no planes I wanted when my airline was created.
Quote from: flightsimer on October 01, 2011, 01:32:15 AM
This change needs to be completely abolished for the first day of a new game... Everyone at my base airport has DC-6's but none were on the market when i entered the game... I waited a couple of hours and used the call and still none... So now im screwed with aircraft choices...
It makes no difference at all compared to old one. In the same situation without the calls feature there would not have been any of those DC-6s either if there were none now. The new system has not changed the way the planes appear to the market.
You have 7 calls a week, apparently have used 2 and have 5 left (see the manual). You can get 3 planes during the first week so it's not even close yet. I would try again a bit before the first day ends since by then most of the people have settled in and got their planes bit the market still refreshes on regular intervals.
Quote from: sami on October 01, 2011, 07:56:45 AM
It makes no difference at all compared to old one. In the same situation without the calls feature there would not have been any of those DC-6s either if there were none now. The new system has not changed the way the planes appear to the market.
You have 7 calls a week, apparently have used 2 and have 5 left (see the manual). You can get 3 planes during the first week so it's not even close yet. I would try again a bit before the first day ends since by then most of the people have settled in and got their planes bit the market still refreshes on regular intervals.
I hit the button once and it says i have no more calls for the week. Now that i think about it though, i did keep getting an error messages as i was trying to filter to the DC-6 fleet right after i called the market which i think happened 5 or so times. But If the list shown to you doesnt update unless i call the market, then how will i be able to see the aircraft as they get put on the market if i cant update it? Now if this is an isolated case thats one thing, but others have said there have been problems with the calls as well.
My point is with this system i cant tell when aircraft are now on the market because i only got 1 chance to update it in the whole 24hrs of the first day. If a DC-6 or anything else came to the market say 5min after i called, then im not going to see it.
What i am saying should be done is make it completely how it used to be with new aircraft just showing up on the market without having to call for the very first day which runs at 24hr long.
The market reloading does not happen unless you specifically press that button, even if you hit F5 on the page or something that way. If you somehow get it to reload, and deduct a call, without pressing the 'call' button I'd like to know .. since it shouldn't do that and I have not managed to do that either (firefox and ie were tested when it was made)
And you have 7, not 1, calls during the first week. You can use them all already at the first day if you wish.
Quote from: sami on October 01, 2011, 07:07:20 PM
The market reloading does not happen unless you specifically press that button, even if you hit F5 on the page or something that way. If you somehow get it to reload, and deduct a call, without pressing the 'call' button I'd like to know .. since it shouldn't do that and I have not managed to do that either (firefox and ie were tested when it was made)
And you have 7, not 1, calls during the first week. You can use them all already at the first day if you wish.
Obviously i need to open a bug thread because you arent getting what im saying... It must just be a bug that specifically happened to me...
Quote from: flightsimer on October 01, 2011, 07:18:53 PM
Obviously i need to open a bug thread because you arent getting what im saying... It must just be a bug that specifically happened to me...
In general, call counter bug was fixed (works fine in MT5). I am not in JA5, so I am not familiar with how it works during the first 24 hour day...
I am not sure if the feature has been removed or if I am just a little blind .....
Is there any mechanism to show the configured range of the aircraft in the aircraft listing? I think it used to be called the "Technical View"
Thanks
Richard
Quote from: Riger on October 05, 2011, 01:39:53 AM
I am not sure if the feature has been removed or if I am just a little blind .....
Is there any mechanism to show the configured range of the aircraft in the aircraft listing? I think it used to be called the "Technical View"
You can click on the aircraft, to bring up the detail, and you will see all the info on the aircraft, including the range as configured (under Operational Info).
I think he means the ability to see the range map and range/payload graphic. I surely miss it.
Nah, I think he does mean the technical view. Not a problem so far in JA (because none of the available planes have multiple engine/MTOW specs), but I'd certainly be missing it in DotM if that wasn't in 1.2 I can pull up all the 757s, but I only want the 3890 range ones. With technical view, that's easy to see. Without technical view, I'd need to open a dozen individual pages to see which of the planes were the type I wanted.
Sami, Can you please make it so when you do a filter and hit back it goes back to the previous page and not all of the aircraft? having to do new filters every time i dislike the aircraft i looked at is getting really old and annoying...
Quote from: flightsimer on October 05, 2011, 03:37:31 PM
Sami, Can you please make it so when you do a filter and hit back it goes back to the previous page and not all of the aircraft? having to do new filters every time i dislike the aircraft i looked at is getting really old and annoying...
Instead of clicking on the aircraft to open the aircraft page in the same tab, open it in a new tab, which will leave the aircraft listing intact.
Generally, you can either right-click on the aircraft link and select New Tab, or you can click the mouse wheel, that is normally programmed for opening in a new tab
Quote from: JumboShrimp on October 05, 2011, 04:19:55 PM
Instead of clicking on the aircraft to open the aircraft page in the same tab, open it in a new tab, which will leave the aircraft listing intact.
Generally, you can either right-click on the aircraft link and select New Tab, or you can click the mouse wheel, that is normally programmed for opening in a new tab
that takes too much effort... especially when you have 3-4 tabs already up looking at different things within the game.
seems weird... im not playing right now but I kinda dont like the idea of this :'(