I wish to start a debate. :o
Why is RyanAir so persistent, that they are whining over the fact that the authorities has closed down the airspace over north england? All the other companies thinks its a shame and that there's nothing to do about it. But why must RyanAir whine about it? Do they simply not care about peoples safety comes first? Are they just greedy? Are they right about the fact that the ashcloud isn't dangerous? Or is it just one of Michael O'Leary's (sorry for these words and no harms ment by it) stupid attention w***ish "advertising"?
or what do you guys think? :-\
I think that O'Leary will say/do just about anything to get the press talking about Ryanair, as opposed to having to pay for ads. It's why, every once in awhile, they talk about charging to use the toilet. They'll never actually do that, because a) if they did they'd have drunk tourists urinating in the cabin rather than pay and b) it would probably depress drink sales, but it's a great fallback to get the media up in arms.
Simple really, no planes in the sky equals no money generated to pay staff, rent, etc. I'd be ranting too. It's not like it's an act of God stopping them from flying it's just the stupid EU not knowing what it's dealing with again.
The funny thing is, more modern engines are actually more succeptible to loss of thrust from ash because of higher TETs (turbine entry temperatures) due to materials advances. That's why you never saw this problem before the 1980's. Think the first case was the RB211 on a 747-400 (the BA captain was a nice guy). Hence there has been no developmen really in detection or avoidance of this problem.
Quote from: ucfknightryan on May 24, 2011, 04:57:58 PM
I think that O'Leary will say/do just about anything to get the press talking about Ryanair, as opposed to having to pay for ads. It's why, every once in awhile, they talk about charging to use the toilet. They'll never actually do that, because a) if they did they'd have drunk tourists urinating in the cabin rather than pay and b) it would probably depress drink sales, but it's a great fallback to get the media up in arms.
In my opinion that is quite negative publicity. Just like their idea of standing-places in the aircraft, it's absurd and only contributes to Ryanair's already poor image. The only reason I'm flying them is because they're so bloody cheap, not because they appear in the news so often.
Quote from: Quinoky on May 24, 2011, 05:08:20 PM
In my opinion that is quite negative publicity. Just like their idea of standing-places in the aircraft, it's absurd and only contributes to Ryanair's already poor image. The only reason I'm flying them is because they're so bloody cheap, not because they appear in the news so often.
As they say there's no such thing as bad publicity...
Hence why they pull the odd PR stunt.
Like in my CI thread, depends if they're chasing public awareness or public perception.
Quote from: alexgv1 on May 24, 2011, 05:13:07 PM
As they say there's no such thing as bad publicity...
Hence why they pull the odd PR stunt.
Like in my CI thread, depends if they're chasing public awareness or public perception.
Well it's fairly obvious that they only want to raise awareness, since their one and only selling point is being cheap. Their service is really quite s***, plainly put. :P
Michael O'Leary is a joke! Listening to him on TV today he clearly has no clue what he is talking about... for a start he didn't seem to know whether he was talking the UK CAA, the IAA or NATS half the time. But why let the facts get in way of a good rant!
Quote from: NorgeFly on May 24, 2011, 06:41:33 PM
Michael O'Leary is a joke! Listening to him on TV today he clearly has no clue what he is talking about... for a start he didn't seem to know whether he was talking the UK CAA, the IAA or NATS half the time. But why let the facts get in way of a good rant!
He is a disgrace to aviation industry- even plane makers don't want to sell him planes anymore, what more I can say :P
cheers
VJC
Quote from: V.Castelino on May 24, 2011, 06:53:16 PM
He is a disgrace to aviation industry- even plane makers don't want to sell him planes anymore, what more I can say :P
cheers
VJC
Funny, a couple of years ago Boeing was gagging to sell him planes he was buying 737-800s with 30-50% off the list price, just because he bought when the books were looking thin.
I think his threats to change to Airbus might have damaged his relation with them a little bit though.
But you can't argue with a man running over 300 737-800s and at his peak took delivery of 52 per year (1/week).
Quote from: alexgv1 on May 24, 2011, 05:13:07 PM
As they say there's no such thing as bad publicity...
Hence why they pull the odd PR stunt.
Like in my CI thread, depends if they're chasing public awareness or public perception.
As the biggest man in danish travelling business Mr. Simon Spies said and i quote here; "Even bad publicity is good publicity"
But still... Michael O'leary is a very annoying person. RyanAir once got kicked out of Aarhus Airport in Denmark, simply because the danish aviation association found out that they paid much lesser than the other airlines flying there, which got Aarhus Airport to claim more money, RyanAir refused, and then they got kicked out. I'm not quite sure, but i think they also got a fine for that.
Also i heard something about RyanAir got into bad situation with Shannon Airport, can anyone confirm this as once again, stupid publicity stunt or was that the real deal?
Quote from: MRFREAK on May 24, 2011, 08:31:23 PM
As the biggest man in danish travelling business Mr. Simon Spies said and i quote here; "Even bad publicity is good publicity"
Right, but let's be honest here.. Does any of the Ryanair kind of publicity came across to you as "good publicity"? The only thing they did was p*** people off, in fact this very thread confirms this yet again.
Quote from: Quinoky on May 24, 2011, 08:34:37 PM
Right, but let's be honest here.. Does any of the Ryanair kind of publicity came across to you as "good publicity"? The only thing they did was p*** people off, in fact this very thread confirms this yet again.
Yeah that's true, yet millions of people choose to fly with them every year! I never have and never will.
Quote from: Quinoky on May 24, 2011, 05:08:20 PM
In my opinion that is quite negative publicity. Just like their idea of standing-places in the aircraft, it's absurd and only contributes to Ryanair's already poor image. The only reason I'm flying them is because they're so bloody cheap, not because they appear in the news so often.
See, this is exactly what they want.
They aren't going to convince anyone that they are a "quality" airline, so they don't waste their time. They pull stunts like this, and the world finds out that they are a s*** airline with cheap prices. And when one needs to fly somewhere cheaply and doesn't care if it is a s*** airline, the first place they look is RyanAir, whether or not they know that the airline is s***.
Very simple
I know, Cactus. That's what I said in an earlier post: they are only raising public awareness since they have nothing to offer except dirt cheap flights.
I know that Ryanair are making plenty of questionable deals here and there and Im not fond of it everytime. However, I wonder when it comes to safety if they even have a record of incidents?
"they have nothing to offer except dirt cheap flights." - do they need anything else?
Quote from: lilius on May 24, 2011, 09:30:04 PM
"they have nothing to offer except dirt cheap flights." - do they need anything else?
With their business model, definitely not. And that's exactly why, like I said, they only need to (and only do) raise public awareness in order to get their business going.
Quote from: Quinoky on May 24, 2011, 10:01:00 PM
With their business model, definitely not. And that's exactly why, like I said, they only need to (and only do) raise public awareness in order to get their business going.
ok, got it :)
Quote from: lilius on May 24, 2011, 09:30:04 PM
However, I wonder when it comes to safety if they even have a record of incidents?
From an inside source: As far back as the 1980's one thing that was never compromised was safety at Ryanair. Safety is the number one thing in any airline, low cost or not. Period. (At least for Western airlines, Adam Airlines in SE Asia was closed down for their bad maintenance a few years ago).
However, all LCCs have been coming under criticism for pilots making bad judgements (e.g. overspeed landings, continuing unstable approaches, etc.) because they are under such pressure to meet their tight schedules that they cannot afford the time lost for a go around.
I fly Ryanair only when there's no other option.
When you fly for business and you have to pay for every kilogram you put on the a/c, you realize that Ryanair is not cheaper than other airlines. I wuld rather fly Lufthansa paying a bit more but without the worry of how much weight I take aboard, or what to do if a volcanic cloud messes up everything, I can get peltny of drinks during my flight and if the company makes a misteake, they pay for it without whining.
O'Leary is the classic irish: he plays the wisemouth but as soon as he see some troubles he starts whining like a child. When the business is not doing as he expected to, he starts shooting to everyone. Oh, look, Ireland is almost broke and the banks are tightening the ropes for the credit to companies? O'Leary says that he will "think about" the next a/c order...
O'Leary is just an accountant that should do what accoutants do: sit in an office filling in Tax Office forms and shut up his mouth, leaving the business to people who run airlines for a living.
And stop whining about a rule which is hitting hard everybody in the industry.
Quote from: NorgeFly on May 24, 2011, 08:38:06 PM
Yeah that's true, yet millions of people choose to fly with them every year! I never have and never will.
me too, until I have no other choice and only way to fly I wont fly that airline.
Quote from: Quinoky on May 24, 2011, 08:34:37 PM
Right, but let's be honest here.. Does any of the Ryanair kind of publicity came across to you as "good publicity"? The only thing they did was p*** people off, in fact this very thread confirms this yet again.
That is exactly what RyanAir wants, they gets into the press by doing and saying stupid things that makes people "oh dear lord what a crappy and stupid airline" then people starts talking about them and then RyanAir is on everyones lips. So everyone starts hearing about RyanAir And that is what Simon Spies ment by "Even bad publicity is good publicity"
Quote from: MRFREAK on May 25, 2011, 09:57:46 AM
That is exactly what RyanAir wants, they gets into the press by doing and saying stupid things that makes people "oh dear lord what a crappy and stupid airline" then people starts talking about them and then RyanAir is on everyones lips. So everyone starts hearing about RyanAir And that is what Simon Spies ment by "Even bad publicity is good publicity"
I know, that's what I said numerous times in this thread.. :P
Oh okay. I might have skipped that somehow :-[
Sorry :'(
Quote from: EYguy on May 24, 2011, 11:43:37 PM
I fly Ryanair only when there's no other option.
When you fly for business and you have to pay for every kilogram you put on the a/c, you realize that Ryanair is not cheaper than other airlines. I wuld rather fly Lufthansa paying a bit more but without the worry of how much weight I take aboard, or what to do if a volcanic cloud messes up everything, I can get peltny of drinks during my flight and if the company makes a misteake, they pay for it without whining.
O'Leary is the classic irish: he plays the wisemouth but as soon as he see some troubles he starts whining like a child. When the business is not doing as he expected to, he starts shooting to everyone. Oh, look, Ireland is almost broke and the banks are tightening the ropes for the credit to companies? O'Leary says that he will "think about" the next a/c order...
O'Leary is just an accountant that should do what accoutants do: sit in an office filling in Tax Office forms and shut up his mouth, leaving the business to people who run airlines for a living.
And stop whining about a rule which is hitting hard everybody in the industry.
Whoa...way of bashing the irish there. Careful with that.
Flying BA, LH or SAS inside Europe is severely overrated if you dont have a connection to catch. You will find yourself sitting with a 70 euro coca cola you have 1h to finish and you probably paid equally for a suitcase you never even brought. Business class under the same conditions are even a worse waste. Lets pull these shades and get cosy in here...
The money you pay to get the "free drinks" in econ easily covers an evening in a pretty nice restaurant. For people who enjoy good food and drink that is a much better option in my opinion.
It worries me that you call OLeary "just an accountant" when he apparently is a BEAST in business development, marketing and cost cutting. Im not saying that all airlines should follow his business model but they definately have plenty to learn from him in modern airline industry.
Sorry i can't hold this one back since it's so funny :laugh:
Mr. O'Leary must be a expert in ashclouds. He just whined once again about the closed airspaces. He claims that the english MET Office is making calculations while blindfolded.
He also states that the aviation associations in europe is stupid to not let airlines fly, and that they will make the same chaos like last year. Also that i have personally have talked to the Boeing company that their aircrafts can fly through highconcentraded zones without any damages.
I wonder if his comments gives backfire, as people might think he wants to risk the passengers of RyanAirs safety. ???
@Ilius
That much of an expert in aviation am i not. But i might have a fling of what your point is.
Anyway. O'Leary might be a little smart. But i can't forget the fact that he once trashtalked BA, Lufthansa and SAS in the worldwide press once, that easy, because that is something that is really uncool, also he persoanlly tried to lure some of SASs pilots to work for RyanAir at a time where SAS had to negotiate new working terms with their pilots. That was really uncool aswell. Even if it frightened the pilots a bit.
Yes MRFREAK I think I even remember that thing with the pilots.
Ryanair gets trashtalked all the time and unfortunately he has a good point when you look at SAS for example not doing much but costing money for our governments.
Lilius, the cost cutting, SHOWING OFF and business development of Mr. O'Leary can be discussed quite in detail.
Here are some examples of how he's just considering the accounting problem:
-he keeps killing routes when apo administration do not comply to his requests. From a point of view of business development this is not a good strategy and you know why? Because a good manager who really cares about business development looks for win-win solutions, not "I win, you get a kick in your butts" as O'Leary does.
-showing off: he keeps talking loud about competitors not behaving correctly (especially AZ on the Milan-Rome route) but then he wants people to stand during flight (suggestion dating back to 2009), addresses safety concerns about rival airlines (AZ, while merging with AP) one year after FR f/a were accused of not having been trained properly. While AZ is one of the safest airlines of the industry (at least one good thing about that crappy airline).
He keeps comparing his airline to other airlines while I've never seen Lufthansa, Air France or BA comparing themselves to Ryanair (nice move... Like comparing Mercedes to some crappy car).
He uses the stupidity of his customers to lure them catching his planes, while people do not understand that if Ryanair is one of the most on-time airlines in Europe is because they do not have connecting flights and, because they have you paying for your luggage, they have lower turn around times than regular airlines. But if you fly from BGY to BUV and from BUV to, say, SHA and your first flight is late, you'll miss the second one and no one will ever refund your ticket.
-cost cutting: I never heard the allegiations of fueling the a/c to the minimum required, as it happend with FR instead. I never heard f/a of other airlines telling me:"We're sorry, but the lavatory ran out of water and can't be used anymore". Me:"Why did it run out of water?" F/a:"We didn't have enough time to fill up the tank during turn around" WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!
Talking about other airlines: I always travel with luggage and, considering my PC case and business bag, I would be pay a fortune flying frigging Ryanair.
Then again: if I'm coming to your wonderful country for a meeting in Stockholm, it's better for me to travel from MXP and land in Arlanda, then catch the train from there to the town centre where I can meet my customer. But if I'm going to Jonkoeping, it's more convenient to fly from BGY to Skavsta. Flying to Skavsta even while flying to Stockholm is stupid because I have to pay a fortune for the bus and travel for almost 100kms to get in the towncentre.
Talking about time: if I had to calculate all the car rental invoices, check in luggage for a bag being 1kg overweight or the gate agent driving me mad for my business bag, I'd probably pay more for a Ryanair flight than a Lufthansa Italy flight.
Then I've my time: time is money, so all the time I spend doing nothing is wasted money. What O'Leary never says and what he never mentions is that he flies to bumf*** nowhere... I never complained about Easyjet, because they have the same routes and lower prices than other airlines.
What I hate about Ryanair is that continous whining of O'Leary and being a wisemouth (which I learned to consider a eat of most of the inhabitants of the Irish island), selling cheap marketing for a crappy airline, misleading customers (and Ryanair got busted several times by the EU, you should know that, for misleading ads!).
All the money I spend on a "free Coke" on Lufthansa is what I would probably pay for a rental car and a snack in a godforsaken apo in the middle of nowhere. Plus, I got my frequent flyer miles, I have my business class lounge access, fast track for security, no problem with luggage and so on... Oh, and I never fly business class in Europe or flights shorter than 6 hrs. I usually do that when going to USA, South Africa, Asia or like now that I'm going back to Europe from Australia.
I just do not understand those people who keep saying that FR is a good airline. Ok, it is a good airline provided that: you're travelling with your toothbrush and nothing more, you are not in a hurry to go anywhere, you want to leave from a godforsaken place at impossible hours, you like to travel in a seat that is smaller than one you could find on a bus, you can stand unprofessional FR f/a (not all of them, most), you do not need your PC and the power plug. For everything else, you have a Miles and More Mastercard! ;)
Quote from: ucfknightryan on May 24, 2011, 04:57:58 PM
I think that O'Leary will say/do just about anything to get the press talking about Ryanair, as opposed to having to pay for ads. It's why, every once in awhile, they talk about charging to use the toilet. They'll never actually do that, because a) if they did they'd have drunk tourists urinating in the cabin rather than pay and b) it would probably depress drink sales, but it's a great fallback to get the media up in arms.
They have, I been on a Ryanair aircraft to Murcia, Spain and you had to pay £1 or 1Euro to use the toilet.
If only we could charge pax that on AWS
First of all. I didn't imagine that this thread would be so "popular" :laugh:
Second of all, that was one heck of a post there EYguy :o
And last but not least, im glad that im not the only one who doesn't like RyanAir. I discussed about RyanAir with my teacher last monday. And she thinks "they are so fantastic and blah blah blah. They are so cheap i spend less than 20 dollars on a flight to Madrid" and so on.
But what i couldn't understand was, HOW THE HELL COULD SHE GET IT SO CHEAP?!?!?! Since when i check the prices, i always end up on a price at approx. 100 dollars and even more with a bag. And she was there for 1 week. That's when i started thinking, eeeew.... gross! Didn't she bring clean clothes on the trip?? And when i asked how she could get it cheap? she was all blabbering about, she just went in a booked some tickets etc. etc. and then she started "learning" me how everything works when booking tickets and telling me that everything i say about RyanAir and extra fees is completely bulls***.
But then i got mad and told her that my dad works at SAS and my brother works at a travel agency, so i KNOW how things WORK while booking tickets. And guess how it ended up? :laugh:
You got a bad mark?
I'm not saying that Ryanair is the evil, but it is not even that good... And, when you catch planes for a living, Ryanair is probably bullcrap! ;)
If you look around wisely with Lufthansa Italy, you can get a r/t ticket to destination from MXP for 99€ a/r ALL INCLUDED, no hidden fees and blah blah blah...
As I said, when going to Southern Sweden, flying BGY-SKA is ok, but then I just barely can stand the people I meet on the plane. I just hate those Italians (because I think it's only Italians doing so) that start clapping their hands at landing... I mean, I park my car, my brother lands his B77F and nobody claps his/her hands! It's his job! :)
Btw, I'd rather spend 20€ more on a regular flight than flying Ryanair... ;)
Edo
Quote from: EYguy on May 26, 2011, 08:46:06 AM
Lilius, the cost cutting, SHOWING OFF and business development of Mr. O'Leary can be discussed quite in detail.
Here are some examples of how he's just considering the accounting problem:
-he keeps killing routes when apo administration do not comply to his requests. From a point of view of business development this is not a good strategy and you know why? Because a good manager who really cares about business development looks for win-win solutions, not "I win, you get a kick in your butts" as O'Leary does.
-showing off: he keeps talking loud about competitors not behaving correctly (especially AZ on the Milan-Rome route) but then he wants people to stand during flight (suggestion dating back to 2009), addresses safety concerns about rival airlines (AZ, while merging with AP) one year after FR f/a were accused of not having been trained properly. While AZ is one of the safest airlines of the industry (at least one good thing about that crappy airline).
He keeps comparing his airline to other airlines while I've never seen Lufthansa, Air France or BA comparing themselves to Ryanair (nice move... Like comparing Mercedes to some crappy car).
He uses the stupidity of his customers to lure them catching his planes, while people do not understand that if Ryanair is one of the most on-time airlines in Europe is because they do not have connecting flights and, because they have you paying for your luggage, they have lower turn around times than regular airlines. But if you fly from BGY to BUV and from BUV to, say, SHA and your first flight is late, you'll miss the second one and no one will ever refund your ticket.
-cost cutting: I never heard the allegiations of fueling the a/c to the minimum required, as it happend with FR instead. I never heard f/a of other airlines telling me:"We're sorry, but the lavatory ran out of water and can't be used anymore". Me:"Why did it run out of water?" F/a:"We didn't have enough time to fill up the tank during turn around" WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!
Talking about other airlines: I always travel with luggage and, considering my PC case and business bag, I would be pay a fortune flying frigging Ryanair.
Then again: if I'm coming to your wonderful country for a meeting in Stockholm, it's better for me to travel from MXP and land in Arlanda, then catch the train from there to the town centre where I can meet my customer. But if I'm going to Jonkoeping, it's more convenient to fly from BGY to Skavsta. Flying to Skavsta even while flying to Stockholm is stupid because I have to pay a fortune for the bus and travel for almost 100kms to get in the towncentre.
Talking about time: if I had to calculate all the car rental invoices, check in luggage for a bag being 1kg overweight or the gate agent driving me mad for my business bag, I'd probably pay more for a Ryanair flight than a Lufthansa Italy flight.
Then I've my time: time is money, so all the time I spend doing nothing is wasted money. What O'Leary never says and what he never mentions is that he flies to bumf*** nowhere... I never complained about Easyjet, because they have the same routes and lower prices than other airlines.
What I hate about Ryanair is that continous whining of O'Leary and being a wisemouth (which I learned to consider a eat of most of the inhabitants of the Irish island), selling cheap marketing for a crappy airline, misleading customers (and Ryanair got busted several times by the EU, you should know that, for misleading ads!).
All the money I spend on a "free Coke" on Lufthansa is what I would probably pay for a rental car and a snack in a godforsaken apo in the middle of nowhere. Plus, I got my frequent flyer miles, I have my business class lounge access, fast track for security, no problem with luggage and so on... Oh, and I never fly business class in Europe or flights shorter than 6 hrs. I usually do that when going to USA, South Africa, Asia or like now that I'm going back to Europe from Australia.
I just do not understand those people who keep saying that FR is a good airline. Ok, it is a good airline provided that: you're travelling with your toothbrush and nothing more, you are not in a hurry to go anywhere, you want to leave from a godforsaken place at impossible hours, you like to travel in a seat that is smaller than one you could find on a bus, you can stand unprofessional FR f/a (not all of them, most), you do not need your PC and the power plug. For everything else, you have a Miles and More Mastercard! ;)
How can you say that he doesnt know how to develop a company? Ryanair has shown ridiculous growth, is making huge profits and pays dividends to its owners. This must be the whole purpose of running a privately owned company. Their financial numbers must be unmatched in the industry even.
I certainly understand that their negotiating is pretty ruthless. Smaller airports are practically PAYING for having them land there. I wish they didnt but its more a result of politics and politicians than Ryanair themselves.
Its not forbidden to compare yourself with other airlines. I dont understand what kind of argument that is.
So you travel in business. That is good for you. If you look at Ryanairs website it pretty much screams "stay away business travelers". The conditions for traveling using the on board luggage are very clearly written on the page too. Why are you even comparing a business lounge equipped airport with some small secondary hub? Hopefully you dont complain about charterflights also because they are unfitting for your type of travel.
Skavsta is far from Stockholm, it would serve better as a Linköping destination. But if we look at Gothenburg Ryanair is using Gothenburg City Airport and not Landvetter which is much further outside the city.
OLeary is unconventional and thats why things should be taken with a grain of salt. No reason to get upset about him really. See the competition as something healthy for the classic european companies. If they are able to survive it that is.
I talked with my dad about RyanAir a couple of weeks ago, and he told me that some airports gives the airlines some good bargains if they start flying to/from their airport, and RyanAir gets a s***load of bargains.
And about that only italians clap their hands after a landing it's not true. I once couldn't help myself from not start clapping, and suddenly the whole damn cabin clapped :D
Quote from: MRFREAK on May 26, 2011, 03:10:15 PM
I talked with my dad about RyanAir a couple of weeks ago, and he told me that some airports gives the airlines some good bargains if they start flying to/from their airport, and RyanAir gets a s***load of bargains.
Yes Stansted dropped their passenger fees from £16 per head to £1 per head when Ryanair went to base there (STN was a failure back then, a backwater, until RYR came along). As I mentioned earlier, 30-50% off the list price for Boeing 737-800s. Bargains indeed.
Also Charleroi practically paid RYR to come there when EU basing opened up in the late nineties, there was fierce competition with other airports like Orly and they were clawing over each other to get an RYR base there. Look at the good it has done, before, Charleroi was a small strip with cattle grazing on the runway but now it has terminal facilities, has created hundreds of local jobs and really revitalised the local economy.
Recently, RYR closed their base and withdrew their aircraft in Belfast City airport, because the government never extended then runway as they promised, limiting the destinations to the UK and not being able to fly to the South coast of Spain, etc (where the money is). Sounds fair enough to me, somebody didn't keep their side of the deal, neither did Ryanair. They put the planes and staff elsewhere, where they could be used to their full by someone who would appreciate them, e.g. their new bases in Eastern Europe.
The bottom line is people vote with their feet (and dollars). The fact people keep flying Ryanair means the company is meeting their needs. Considering most flights are <2 hours, most people are willing to deal with a couple hours of cramped conditions to get somewhere cheap. You can easily spend twice as much on another airline to find yourself on another flight just as cramped and uncomfortable.
In terms of ruthless negotiations, if you haven't noticed, the airline industry has been in the tank the past 10 years or so. Most airports have spent millions, if not billions for expansions only to find them sitting empty. If planes aren't flying, there get zero revenue but still have the huge overhead costs of maintaining terminals/gates. Airlines who don't expect airports to cater to their needs when they aren't anywhere near capacity would be failing their shareholders.
You also have to consider that RyanAir has a brand to maintain for being low cost. If an airport charges $30 instead of $3 for passenger fees, that means their prices go up accordingly and thus they aren't helping their brand by offering more expensive tickets. In the US, Southwest does the same exact thing. They recently started flying into Greenville/Spartanburg (GSP) near me due to the low cost of operating there (Allegiant uses it as a focus city with their 30 year old MD-80s). The other nearby major airports--CLT and ATL, are much MUCH more expensive. Even the small podunk airport where I live in Asheville (AVL) charges 2x as much to fly into AVL versus GSP. Heck, taxes are so high here they don't even print the Asheville newspaper here anymore--they print it in Greenville and truck it into Asheville every morning because it's cheaper to do so. If it weren't for the fact Asheville is such a big tourist destination, no one would ever fly into AVL unless it was for business.
Lilius, I can find you 10 more other flag carrier that pay dividend to their shareholder and get bottomline results as Ryanair does (i.e., Lufthansa, IMHO the best flag carrier in Europe).
LCC are growing fast but in my opinion they're like this "chinese mania" that hit Europe, having peope buying imported chinese crap that sells for nothing, but also last 24 hrs before breaking up! ;)
If you talk about leisure travellers, RYR is probably their best option but I'm lucky enough to travel for business. I'm not travelling business class (read what I wrote: I do that only when I'm travelling ULH) but I do appreciate what airlines do in order to give me that "extra yard" (like the priority security lane or the business lounge access).
As you and Lemonbutt said, it is a matter of taxed: but what I really despise are all those people who like to save on apo taxes and then pay huge amount of money in renting a car or catching a bus/train to their destination, basically cutting to zero their price advantage.
Moreover, when I book a rental car (if I need one) when travelling with my fav airline, I usually get a 15 or 20% rebate on the basic price when booking it through the airline's website! :)
I bet you've seen the movie "Up in the Air": because my lifestyle used to be very similar to the one of the main character, I'm sure you can understand why I do not travel Ryanair and why O'Leary for me is just an accountant.
I have experienced better level of service when travelling Easyjet, which is a LCC like RYR but travellin to major apos... And they do not keep whining, trashtalking and showing off like RYR does...
Edo
Am I correct in understanding that captains that work for Ryanair get paid bonuses for a quick turn-around time and reductions if they fall behind the allocated turnaround time of 25mins!? That isn't doing much for safety, certain checks maybe missed and taxing speeds increased. There also seems to be a saying that i hear creeping up more and more: You never see a ryanair taxying less than 30knots.
Look, I know that they aim to be dirt cheap and an airline which you pay for what you get, but they need to bear in mind that actually we are the customers and the ones that are paying. I have never flown Ryanair and never will unless they get their act together, because they bully customers around (and airports for that matter). I'd quite happily pay a little bit extra to fly with someone like Monarch, Easyjet or Thomson Airways
Quote from: Lazybee on June 01, 2011, 10:06:41 PM
Am I correct in understanding that captains that work for Ryanair get paid bonuses for a quick turn-around time and reductions if they fall behind the allocated turnaround time of 25mins!?
One of the glider pilots I fly with is also a first officer with FR. I can ask him if you like.
Michael O'Leary is a very clever man. Don't anybody doubt that. Most people love to have a good rant at his airline, and the people on here are no exception, but it's all this big clever ruse he's been running. Because when you decide you need a dirt cheap flight to europe, the first thing those same people will type in the search bar is "ryanair.com".
Annoyingly Dan is right.
I hate Ryanair with a passion, I don't like O'Leary, I don't like the way they operate, I don't like their attitude, I worry that sooner or later they are going to cause a terrible accident. But, I might need to go to Germany for my university dissertation and Ryanair have tickets for £50rtn.
And ironically the airport in the middle of nowhere they fly to is near where I want to be! :laugh:
Dave, because of the industrial structure of Europe, most of my customer were based close to the major apos around Europe (say a stone's throw from the major apos).
If it happens that a RYR flight is landing close to a customer's place, I won't hesitate a second to catch that flight, as I've already done when going to Sweden.
But I can get the same service from EasyJet who doesn't trashtalk anyone, who give better information about its prices (no "1€ flight" when then you have so many additional taxes that will make the cost of the flight closer to 20€!) and you land in LHR, not in the middle of nowhere! :)
Moreover: comparative advertising is ok, until it becomes misleading. Comparing FR to LH is misleading IMO because they do not take in account that LH has a customer base of people connecting from other flights.
If the flight FRA-JFK is leaving 15 mins late that delay can be made up during flight. But if you have 30 pax of that flight coming from, say, ARL and the flight from there is delayed, do you think it would be better for LH to delay the flight from FRA or reroute those pax? Do you think it would be better for the pax? Do you think it will cause a cost for the airline? IMHO RYR is doing misleading ad because people do not know about these issues which actually are those aspects of the airline industry that MAKE THE DIFFERENCE between Ryanair and anu other flag carrier.
Then, again: how many complaints have you heard about flag carrier during the 2010 eruption? And how many about Ryanair?
Edo
Well, I just need to get to a volcano near Koblenz so it's Cologne Bonn airport if its anywhere. Which it now turns out Ryanair don't fly to. Its bmibaby or EasyJet, both of which fly there from places I will find very hard to get too!
And on your point about Ryanair and ash they have just been angering me over all that. First all this no refund stuff and all that and then flying no-where near high concentrations of ash and saying the Met-Office is lying. Someone should tell O'Leary about BA flight 9.
Dave, that's why I do not like O'Leary... Every nerd here on AWS know the business bettern than he does! ;)
Quote from: EYguy on June 02, 2011, 05:26:58 AM
(no "1€ flight" when then you have so many additional taxes that will make the cost of the flight closer to 20€!)
Well these things were such a possibility 5 years ago, with myself and many associates having caught these flights. But they are now impossible and a thing of the past, but this is not due to Ryanair, it's mainly to do with rising fuel prices and government/EU taxes being added. So you can blame the government (and maybe the arabs) for the distinct lack of bargain flights anymore. I still think it's wonderful that your average working class person can fly on holiday for under a hundred pounds. Before Ryanair the likes of BA and Aer Lingus charges whatever they liked (yes price fixing).
Just a couple of weeks ago I found plenty of RETURN tickets to Stansted from Gothenburg City for the TOTAL price of 250 SEK ( should be around 25-30 Euro). These prices were for flights in the middle of the summer.
Alex what I meant to say was that those 1€ tickets are just junk. Easzjet doesn't advertise tickets selling for 1€ because they know they can't sell tickets for that price. It's not the arabs# fault, government or blah blah blah, but Alitalia, SWISS, Lufthansa, Air France advertise ticket for 99€ and in the end you'll be billed 99€ and not one cent more... :) That was, is and will be my point.
Edo
Quote from: EYguy on June 04, 2011, 04:31:15 AM
Alex what I meant to say was that those 1€ tickets are just junk. Easzjet doesn't advertise tickets selling for 1€ because they know they can't sell tickets for that price. It's not the arabs# fault, government or blah blah blah, but Alitalia, SWISS, Lufthansa, Air France advertise ticket for 99€ and in the end you'll be billed 99€ and not one cent more... :) That was, is and will be my point.
Edo
I can see why it is better with being given the "real" price from the beginning and I do prefer it also. Still it takes about 30 seconds to understand the cost structure of the Ryanair offer. My price for a return ticket to Stansted from Gothenburg City landed at 250 SEK (...and not a cent more ha ha ) The bargain they offered was 89 SEK per flight.
It is true that tickets are advertised for 99 Euro by those airlines but they are also very restricted and the offers are quite difficult to use.
Okay, one thing you can't do without someone like Ryanair (except maybe Easyjet).
Just booked a weekend holiday to Magaluf with the lads to celebrate the end of the uni year. Booked it under two weeks in advance and it cost £130 in total flying to Palma de Mallorca.
Surely we can all agree that LCCs are good thing, even if we have mixed opinions on certain ones??
Most about RyanAir has already been said, but there is one aspect that is yet to be mentioned, and for which I am very thankful to RyanAir and other LCC's - the massive drop in flight ticket prices over the past decade. I am a Latvian who grew up in Stockholm, Sweden, so I have always been flying a lot to Riga, Latvia. It is a very short flight - between 45 and 70 minutes depending on winds and aircraft type. Before the rise of LCC's and RyanAir, it was common for a ticket to cost 3-400 EUR round trip. The same with tickets from Stockholm to Germany - they maybe were a bit cheaper, but still hard to find below 250 EUR round trip. Of course, there were always exceptions and sales, but it doesn't change that the average ticket prices were very high.
Since LCC's and RyanAir stepped up the competition, offering dirt-cheap fares, most other carriers have been forced to review their pricing policies as well. Maybe there are other factors as well, but I do feel that there is a strong correlation between lower ticket prices accross the board (especially compared with the 1990's) and airlines like RyanAir, for which I am very thankful for. For example, for Christmas me and my wife flew Riga-Frankfurt for 40 EUR p/p (AirBaltic), Münster-Osnabrück - Berlin for 60 EUR p/p (AirBerlin) and Berlin-Riga for 70 EUR p/p (AirBaltic). Earlier this year we flew to Belgrade from Riga for around 100 EUR round trip. Before RyanAir, all of these tickets would have cost at least the double amount.
This is what I like the best about RyanAir and other LCC's. If I have the chance, I avoid RyanAir since I don't like the feel of cattle transport which the airline has, but if the difference in price is significant, I'd rather spend my 1-2 hours on RyanAir and waste my money on dinner at a high-end restaurant.
All you have to know that if you fly with RyanAir, obey all of their rules, no matter how silly they might seem, because if you don't, there probably will be an employee looking to get a truckload of money from you for allowing you on the flight. If you do not want that, fly with another airline. As simple as that.
Andri, I reckon you're right when you say that LCCs in general helped to squeeze the air fares and I'm thankful for that. But as I've already said, I just HATE the way RYR behaves with pax. If you read what I wrote in the last few months, you'll see that I often fly Easyjet, which is slightly more expensive than RYR but has a way better service level! :) And I hate the yellow color of RYR interiors, ahahah!
And, another thing are the crew members of RYR: they behave like homless trying to sell you anything, from smokeless cigarettes to phone cards and lottery tickets. Easyjet is not like that and, I'd say, they're more professional.
As you rightely wrote, RYR gives the feeling of being in "cattle class", but at least cattles are going to be killed at the end of the travel, while the average RYR pax agonizes during the whole flight and, if he has a roundtrip ticket, is going to be tortured on the way back too! ;)
LCC have been and continue to be great for the flying public regardless of whether you personally use them or not.
I am from Australia and until recently we have always had a two airline policy - TAA and Ansett for Domestic (Qantas for International), then Ansett and Qantas (Domestic) after TAA's demise....air travel within Aussie was very expensive.
Government changed the rules and along came Virgin as a budget carrier (and do you think Branson's 'free advertising' opportunities where any different than RyanAir), but Ansett and Qantas (Domestic) lowered fares where Virgin competed directly on their routes....flying public are winners.
Ansett fell by the wayside and Virgin became the 2nd carrier, prices went up (not to the Duopoly days, but still went up)...flying public lose again.
Tiger Airways comes in as the LCC and what do you know Qantas (Domestic) and Virgin lower prices and run specials.
So from my viewpoint ....bring in more LCC so that I can fly Qantas at a better rate for me ;D
PS - Qantas also brought in it's own LCC - Jetstar to compete directly with Virgin...so in effect Qantas competes with itself as Jetstar on many domestic routes ... have to love Government legislation.
Flew Göteborg City - Rome Ciampino this summer with RYR. Only thing that bothered me was the way you board the plane from front and from back. It always seems to end up in a mess when both queues collide in the middle and half of them wants to continue further. They should figure out a better way of boarding. Maybe a stewardess blocking the mid of the plane would be enough to not allow chaos.
They would probably chare you somewhere between 5 and 15€ to give you a "no chaos boarding"... But it would just be one of their tricks to get money, because those who do not care about a chaotic boarding, would not pay for it, and since you need the collaboration of everybody, you'd just waste yor money with RYR once again! :)