Wow, JA4... Within the span of 30 minutes, there have already been 185 orders for this plane.
Doesn't this say to someone else that there simply is too much cash sitting out there? I ordered 7 of these things (dont want to order too many for when the later models get announced).
Hype.
The BAC 111 is the better of the two ... Medium a/c (instead of Large) with better fuel burn and just 10 min slower on a 500nm route.
Not hype... people like to fly the same company's planes... dc8, dc9
Quote from: swiftus27 on April 27, 2011, 09:01:52 PM
Not hype... people like to fly the same company's planes... dc8, dc9
Which doesn't hold any advantages whatsoever..
The DC-9-10 really isn't
that good.
Quote from: Quinoky on April 27, 2011, 09:08:33 PM
Which doesn't hold any advantages whatsoever..
The DC-9-10 really isn't that good.
The extra 400nm range is enough for many.
Quote from: swiftus27 on April 27, 2011, 09:01:52 PM
Not hype... people like to fly the same company's planes... dc8, dc9
Following this logic, does it makes sense then to order the Aérospatiale Concord just because you happen to also fly the Aérospatiale N262? Aircraft manufacturer has no bearing whatsoever on fleet commonality in AWS.
Quote from: GoGreenCEO on April 27, 2011, 09:21:25 PM
Aircraft manufacturer has no bearing whatsoever on fleet commonality in AWS.
dont get me started on that.
Quote from: GoGreenCEO on April 27, 2011, 09:21:25 PMAircraft manufacturer has no bearing whatsoever on fleet commonality in AWS.
However, it should.
Therefore, you should support my suggestion for commonality points!
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,30395.0.html
Quote from: BobTheCactus on April 27, 2011, 09:27:10 PM
However, it should.
Therefore, you should support my suggestion for commonality points!
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,30395.0.html
Yes, his idea!
Quote from: swiftus27 on April 27, 2011, 09:29:38 PM
Yes, his idea!
Which is based on swiftus' idea, which makes it his too in a sense!
Quote from: BobTheCactus on April 27, 2011, 09:30:15 PM
Which is based on swiftus' idea, which makes it his too in a sense!
Ha! ;)
You still haven't posted your opinion on my twist yet.
Quote from: BobTheCactus on April 27, 2011, 09:41:27 PM
You still haven't posted your opinion on my twist yet.
I know, my head hurts from the math. I am a business banker, darn it... all I do is calculate cash flow coverages...
Quote from: swiftus27 on April 27, 2011, 09:44:22 PM
I know, my head hurts from the math. I am a business banker, darn it... all I do is calculate cash flow coverages...
:D
I wish I got to calculate cash flow coverages. Instead, I get to sit in school and attempt to understand college level calculus (which usually doesn't work)
Quote from: BobTheCactus on April 27, 2011, 09:46:34 PM
:D
I wish I got to calculate cash flow coverages. Instead, I get to sit in school and attempt to understand college level calculus (which usually doesn't work).
And you will never need it, either... that is if you are in the finance world. I am done with my 7 year stint in college. No more, thank you.
Quote from: swiftus27 on April 27, 2011, 09:51:16 PM
And you will never need it, either... that is if you are in the finance world. I am done with my 7 year stint in college. No more, thank you.
Nope, aerospace engineering. Pretty soon, I'll be designing the planes that end up on this site :D
but I sincerely hope calculus is useless, because I'm failing miserably at it.
Prepare for calculus then, I did AE and for the first 2 years got hammered pretty nasty. I'm sure you'll end up liking it ;D
If only we didn't have an age limit on frames... I'd love to fly around a fleet of DC-9-50's in 2015 in an MT scenario..
Quote from: schro on April 27, 2011, 10:04:58 PM
If only we didn't have an age limit on frames... I'd love to fly around a fleet of DC-9-50's in 2015 in an MT scenario..
Even better, fly a Breguet 763 after Boeing 763 comes out. Oh the confusion :D
Quote from: BobTheCactus on April 27, 2011, 09:56:50 PM
Nope, aerospace engineering. Pretty soon, I'll be designing the planes that end up on this site :D
but I sincerely hope calculus is useless, because I'm failing miserably at it.
Trust me Bob, brush up on the calculus (and the Fourier series, differential equations, Laplace transforms). You will need them.
Where do you hope to study?
Quote from: alexgv1 on April 27, 2011, 10:45:23 PM
Trust me Bob, brush up on the calculus (and the Fourier series, differential equations, Laplace transforms). You will need them.
Where do you hope to study?
Eh, I'm trying, but my teacher is awful. And trying to balance schoolwork with college admissions is a serious hassle (especially considering that I want to go to a school which works on such a specialized degree)
My guidance counselor couldn't give me a better idea of where to go to than "Embry Riddle Aeronautical University" which is a crap school with an 89% acceptance rate and a credit check instead of an application :/
Quote from: BobTheCactus on April 28, 2011, 12:22:43 AM
Eh, I'm trying, but my teacher is awful. And trying to balance schoolwork with college admissions is a serious hassle (especially considering that I want to go to a school which works on such a specialized degree)
My guidance counselor couldn't give me a better idea of where to go to than "Embry Riddle Aeronautical University" which is a crap school with an 89% acceptance rate and a credit check instead of an application :/
My advice would then be get as much extra tuition inside and outside of school as well. Sit all the additional maths papers you can and maybe get to know an older maths/engineering student who can help you with some advanced stuff. Not saying splash out on a tutor or anything, but make the most of the free things available to you.
Good luck getting into the college that you want (look further than what the guidance counsellor advises if you are not happy). Engineering is a hard degree, and I hope you don't expect much of a social life at college compared to the arts students. But it is worth it and you wont have wasted your time there, like some people on other courses.
Not trying to put a downer on aero engineering - go for it! It's not for everyone (even myself I think at times) but you will find out what it's like for yourself.
Quote from: alexgv1 on April 28, 2011, 12:40:36 AM
My advice would then be get as much extra tuition inside and outside of school as well. Sit all the additional maths papers you can and maybe get to know an older maths/engineering student who can help you with some advanced stuff. Not saying splash out on a tutor or anything, but make the most of the free things available to you.
Good luck getting into the college that you want (look further than what the guidance counsellor advises if you are not happy). Engineering is a hard degree, and I hope you don't expect much of a social life at college compared to the arts students. But it is worth it and you wont have wasted your time there, like some people on other courses.
Not trying to put a downer on aero engineering - go for it! It's not for everyone (even myself I think at times) but you will find out what it's like for yourself.
Thanks, I really appreciate all the help I can get.
From what I understand, engineering is a tough degree, but the toughness causes lots of people to look in other directions, therefore basically guarenteeing a job if you manage to get your degree. Considering the jobs market right now, and that I've always love aviation, it seems like a good choice.
I'm in Calculus II right now, but my professor teaches all calc/dif EQ classes, and he actually makes Calculus fun! :o :o
Here is his website, he has podcasts, animations, notes, key ideas, practice problems, etc.
http://www.mcs.sdsmt.edu/tkowalsk/index.html
P.S. To see past course materials go to the "Useful Archives" section
Quote from: RushmoreAir on April 28, 2011, 02:47:58 AM
I'm in Calculus II right now, but my professor teaches all calc/dif EQ classes, and he actually makes Calculus fun! :o :o
Here is his website, he has podcasts, animations, notes, key ideas, practice problems, etc.
http://www.mcs.sdsmt.edu/tkowalsk/index.html
P.S. To see past course materials go to the "Useful Archives" section
Apart from the site, which had some very creative ideas which I thought were very interesting and helpful, the main thing that I learned out of this website is that a school called the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology
exists. And a couple minutes of looking at info on it, it doesn't seem like it would be a horrible place to go to (which, to be honest, was my first reaction when I read "South Dakota"). So, that begs the question, is the school worth going to, in your opinion? (starting college apps in a couple months, and I'm already stressed out about them from what everyone's telling me)
Quote from: BobTheCactus on April 28, 2011, 03:11:28 AM
Apart from the site, which had some very creative ideas which I thought were very interesting and helpful, the main thing that I learned out of this website is that a school called the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology exists. And a couple minutes of looking at info on it, it doesn't seem like it would be a horrible place to go to (which, to be honest, was my first reaction when I read "South Dakota"). So, that begs the question, is the school worth going to, in your opinion? (starting college apps in a couple months, and I'm already stressed out about them from what everyone's telling me)
Of course I'm biased, but I really like the school. The facilities are great, and the academic quality can't be beat. The quality of the school is undeniable, something like 98-100% of students get placed in a graduate program and/or job within 1 year of graduation. It is also reasonably affordable, with tuition (with R&B) running at something like $8k to $10k per year. Lots of companies come to recruit; one of my friends got an internship with Goodrich testing the 747-8's electric systems. The facilities the school offers are amazing. We have 1.5 million dollar titanium deposition lasers and friction stir welding systems that students can experiment with in classes, etc.
http://gotomines.com/academics/
One of the cool things about the school is the CAMP program. It allows students to explore real-world problems while still in school. Basically, you have teams that use creative problem solving on fun projects. A few teams are the Formula Team (builds formula cars), the UAV team (builds unmanned aerial vehicles), and the Aero Team (My team ;D) that designs and builds R/C aircraft from scratch. These teams are completely student run, and fairly small (20-40 people per team) so you can have the full experience. CAMP teams frequently beat similar teams from MIT and similar.
http://camp.sdsmt.edu/index.php
www.aeroheads.org
www.hardrockerracing.com
One other benefit of the school is the campus and student community. Since the school is around 2,500 students, it feels small enough so that you know most everybody in your class. The campus itself is not more than 20? acres, so it is easily walkable anywhere. The dorms just got renovated as well, which is a benefit to incoming freshmen.
The only sad thing is that it doesn't offer aerospace engineering (AE) but the Mechanical Engineering department has a heavy emphasis on fluid dynamics, which is almost better than AE. If you look at Boeing, most AE jobs can also be filled by ME with fluid dynamics electives.
Rapid City, a town of 67,000, is more amenable than what you would think just based on its size. Since it's the second biggest city in the state, it has a retail/service catchment area of 300 miles, so you get lots of stores and restaurants that other towns this size wouldn't. It also has the beautiful Black Hills, hiking and nature galore.
So, definitely consider it. ;D ;D ;D
Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.
Sounds like a great place, and best of all, assuming I don't flunk a couple courses next year, the website tells me that I should get auto-admission :D
I'll add it to my list of possible safeties ;)
Correction: 8-10k per semester, not year. :-[
Ever thought about studying abroad? The TU Delft (Technical University Delft) is one of the best technical universities in the world, at a price of about €1672 per year (subsidized by the government). Go look it up in the rankings. :)
University rankings are really helpful in deciding your university. I study at the University of Groningen which is also ranked in the top 100/200 in the world, which is always useful for job/study advancements. :)
Thanks for sharing Rushmore.
Bob you are right, with an engineering degree you open many doors on the careers front, there isn't much you can't do (and if you can't it's because you're overqualified for the job ;D ).
If you consider studying abroad, I wouldn't recommend the UK because fees are something like £11k per semester. If you were to go then University of Southampton has the best course in the country for Aerospace Engineering and is ranked pretty high worldwide.
Quote from: alexgv1 on April 28, 2011, 10:29:16 AM
Bob you are right, with an engineering degree you open many doors on the careers front, there isn't much you can't do (and if you can't it's because you're overqualified for the job ;D ).
Not entirely true. For example: an Industrial Design degree is as much an engineering degree as Aerospace Engineering, yet the experience is that those who hold an Industrial Design degree find it difficult to obtain an appropriate job.
Abroad gets pricey because you have to have citizenship to get your tuition subsidized. However I'm definetely looking at all my options.
This might help: http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011/subject-rankings/engineering/mechanical-engineering
Quote from: Quinoky on April 28, 2011, 11:19:32 AM
Not entirely true. For example: an Industrial Design degree is as much an engineering degree as Aerospace Engineering, yet the experience is that those who hold an Industrial Design degree find it difficult to obtain an appropriate job.
By appropriate job do you mean within the engineering industry?
I could agree there, but loads of engineering graduates go off and make their fortunes working in the city (London) as bankers, accountants, actuaries, stock brokers, etc.
So I'd say there is
a job out there for an engineering graduate, at least in the UK. Getting into high industry here (e.g. Formula 1, Rolls-Royce, Airbus, Thales, etc.), however, is very competitive and requires a First Class degree and industrial experience.
The DC-9 vs. B737 vs. BAC-1-11 thing was discussed in the JA#4 forums and every aircraft and variant has its advantages. Saying "A is s***" or "B is much better in every scenario" is just and simply wrong.
By the way, I can understand why DC-9 (and now B727) are ordered this much - they establish a completely new class of aircraft; >75 pax short-mid-haul jet aircraft
B707 and DC-8 can be used as long-haul, too, and you can get just 11 of them a year, so why don't use another aircraft type for the job.
Another thing is... DC-9, B727 and B737 take their time this scenario and released very late. Many people waited for them and gained a good cash basis to order them. Ordering just a few of them is also not very smart. I was launch customer for B727-100 and orderer 35x and now, 6 hours later, back at home, I'm forced to order some more if I want no delivery gap...
It is quite unbelievable though how aircraft like the HS Trident get completely forgotten. I believe this is the same as Pepsi vs Coca Cola, people simply choose the brand, not the "taste".
Quote from: alexgv1 on April 28, 2011, 12:47:40 PM
By appropriate job do you mean within the engineering industry?
I could agree there, but loads of engineering graduates go off and make their fortunes working in the city (London) as bankers, accountants, actuaries, stock brokers, etc.
Well that's something I have never heard of before.. London has the finest business universities in Europe yet engineering graduates work as bankers and accountants. That sounds quite unlikely to me. ???
Quote from: Quinoky on April 28, 2011, 04:01:14 PM
Well that's something I have never heard of before.. London has the finest business universities in Europe yet engineering graduates work as bankers and accountants. That sounds quite unlikely to me. ???
I'd say your view might not be well informed, most good universities are outside of London; it's just that those in the capitol have the big name/reputation.
London universities aren't actually that great, most just have a niche which they specialise in (e.g. LSE for economics, LVC for vetinary sciences, Imperial for medicine/science/engineering, Kings for arts, etc.). There may be some private universities in London which are really good for business degrees but I wouldn't know about them.
Engineers are wanted by these finance companies for their analytical thinking and methods they learn at university, most other things can easily be learn on the job (especially with the capacity of engineers).
I know this is just one person , but as an example, I'll name one of my lecturers (from an engineering degree) used to work in the city and has now taught us propulsion and analysis modules.
The London Business School is ranked as the number one MBA university in the world..
Anyway, I think you overestimate the engineering degree. Of course, it offers many job opportunities but a bank can't hire a mechanical engineer and simply expect the guy to do well. One simply needs at least some financial or business education for these kind of jobs. What does happen often, though, are bachelor degree engineers following a management masters, after which they fulfill management positions in airlines, consumer electronics companies and so on. But someone solely holding an engineering degree fulfills a completely different niche in the market.
Quote from: Quinoky on April 28, 2011, 05:08:26 PM
The London Business School is ranked as the number one MBA university in the world..
Anyway, I think you overestimate the engineering degree. Of course, it offers many job opportunities but a bank can't hire a mechanical engineer and simply expect the guy to do well. One simply needs at least some financial or business education for these kind of jobs. What does happen often, though, are bachelor degree engineers following a management masters, after which they fulfill management positions in airlines, consumer electronics companies and so on. But someone solely holding an engineering degree fulfills a completely different niche in the market.
Yes thats a private one I think. Could never afford them :-[
One path I was recommended was BEng/MEng > MBA so of course it's not always a straight transition if you don't specialise in management, kind of like you said.
I'd say there is no more versatile degree in the world than an engineering one, nor one which is better and highly esteemed. But I would say that because I'm biased (yes I am an engineering snob :laugh: , rightly so ::) ).
:laugh: I think you are indeed quite biased. Economics studies are also very high esteemed, especially econometrics (companies line up for those who hold an econometrics degree, literally). And some business degrees such as the MBA at the LBS are highly esteemed as well.
Quote from: Quinoky on April 28, 2011, 05:46:03 PM
:laugh: I think you are indeed quite biased. Economics studies are also very high esteemed, especially econometrics (companies line up for those who hold an econometrics degree, literally). And some business degrees such as the MBA at the LBS are highly esteemed as well.
I also have a biased view of that. Two of my housemates are doing economics, they all just get drunk and go out all the time, never do any work, and still end up with a 2:1. So you'll have to forgive me for having that bias too :laugh:
Let's put it this way then:
CEO Royal Dutch Shell (Peter Voser) - MSc Business Administration
CEO Unilever (Paul Polman) - MBA in Finance and International Marketing
CEO ING Bank Netherlands (Jan Hommen) - MSc Business Economics
CEO Toyota (Akio Toyoda) - Master of Business Administration
GCE Barclays (Robert Diamond) - BA Economics, MBA
CEO BNP Paribas (Baudouin Prot) - Business Administration degrees from HEC Paris and École nationale d'administration
etc. :)
Quote from: Quinoky on April 28, 2011, 06:25:06 PM
Let's put it this way then:
CEO Royal Dutch Shell (Peter Voser) - MSc Business Administration
CEO Unilever (Paul Polman) - MBA in Finance and International Marketing
CEO ING Bank Netherlands (Jan Hommen) - MSc Business Economics
CEO Toyota (Akio Toyoda) - Master of Business Administration
GCE Barclays (Robert Diamond) - BA Economics, MBA
CEO BNP Paribas (Baudouin Prot) - Business Administration degrees from HEC Paris and École nationale d'administration
etc. :)
Just shows any old drunkard can become a CEO then ::) ;D
Haha, you're persistent. :laugh:
You ignored my on-topic post ;(
I didn't, I replied:
It is quite unbelievable though how aircraft like the HS Trident get completely forgotten. I believe this is the same as Pepsi vs Coca Cola, people simply choose the brand, not the "taste".
:)
CEO Brown Star Airlines (John Brickel) - BA Political Science, MBA Management
Well, there you go. :laugh:
CEO Breezand (Nick Meijer) - BSc International Business (admittedly, still working on it)
From what I've heard, a double major in Engineering and business is the best way to get a good job.
Well, since you're then specialized in two key areas, of course it is a great way to get a job. Most airline CEO's hold this combination so if you want to run your own airline in the real world, that's the way to go.
Quote from: Quinoky on April 28, 2011, 08:28:35 PM
I didn't, I replied:
It is quite unbelievable though how aircraft like the HS Trident get completely forgotten. I believe this is the same as Pepsi vs Coca Cola, people simply choose the brand, not the "taste".
:)
The Trident has the same range as DC-9, but is bigger (in the last 3B Variant, arriving early-mid '70s), but I think it's a good aircraft as second fleet type if your first fleet type is Fokker F.28 or BAC-1-11. Unfortunately the fuel consumption is much higher and only the 3B variant has a good pax/fuel ratio.
Hmm..
Fuel consumption per seat per hour:
B727-100: 4760/114 = 41.75
HS121 1C: 4380/102 = 42.94
Quite the same if you ask me. Not to mention that the turnaround of the HS121 is 5 minutes shorter, the lease price is 20k per week per plane lower, and the speed is Mach 0.05 higher than the B727-100. Again, the B727 is popular due to the brand, not the specifications (unless you need its range, of course).
B727 is popular because you have a mid-high range model (B727-100), you have a big short-mid range model (B727-200) and you can replace both with B727-200 Adv.
So you are very flexible and get an excellent aircraft with the B722Adv, while the Trident offers you nothing more than bigger versions. Trident is ok for people who are late in the B727 queue or want to save some money while ordering. Range of the Trident isn't enough to make a big difference due to the higher speed and faster turn-around and, again, you are limited in range and pax. And while the bigger B727 variants consumes less fuel or the same, the bigger Trident variants need much more.
Again, no bad aircraft and it has it's advantages (like the DC-9), but I think it's wrong to say it has no good advantages, especially for airlines that needs the range (because there is _no_ alternative in range if you don't want to use B707 or DC-8).
(Aircraft name ; pax manufacturer config ; pax eco maximum ; pilots ; crew ; turn-around ; speed kts ; range nm ; fuel consumption kg/hr)
Boeing 727-100 114 131 3 4 45 459 1990-2230 4760-4950
Boeing 727-200 156 183 3 4 45 459 1350-1430-1480 5030-4850-4770
Boeing 727-200Adv. 162 189 3 4 45 459 1980-2100-2520 4100-4290-4510
Hawker Siddeley HS121 Trident 1C 102 115 3 3 40 490 1170 4380
Hawker Siddeley HS121 Trident 2E 114 127 3 3 40 490 1500 5060
Hawker Siddeley HS121 Trident 3B 132 154 3 4 40 490 1290 5190
Yep, the -200 and -200Adv are way better. But we're talking about the B727-100 here. An due to its incredible popularity, it will become hard to get the -200 and -200Adv properly before the game world's end. But indeed, like I also said, the range of the B727-100 is the only thing that sets it apart from the rest. :)
Quote from: Quinoky on April 28, 2011, 08:36:03 PM
CEO Breezand (Nick Meijer) - BSc International Business (admittedly, still working on it)
Quote from: swiftus27 on April 28, 2011, 08:30:40 PM
CEO Brown Star Airlines (John Brickel) - BA Political Science, MBA Management
CEO South West Airlines (Alex Gralton) - MEng Aeronautics and Astronautics (in progress)
Quote from: alexgv1 on April 28, 2011, 06:53:03 PM
Just shows any old drunkard can become a CEO then ::) ;D
::) ::)
Looks like we're all a bunch of wasters then :laugh: