I've always played in medium-sized airports (e.g. St. Louis right now in Air Travel Boom) where no one really bothers me too much. I'm able to usually hold my own against the huge airlines that try to take market share from me. But, now I think I would like to try my hand at starting at one of the major airports (like Newark).
Can anyone give me some advice for operating at one of these huge airports to which and from which everyone wishes to fly? I'm just curious about the major do's and don'ts (especially when you first start out and then long-term strategies).
Thanks!
EDIT: Only in a new game. I'd never think about doing this in a 50% finished game!
Sadly, right now it is a slot grab at the largest airports. Get planes up. Be damned with fleet commonality. Focus going to other airports that also fill up quickly.... like LHR. Focus on large routes first and then regional second and propeller range last. It will be fine if someone starts doing the regional stuff first. Feel free to dominate later... those profitable trans continental and intercontinental flights first.
- Do this only in a new game world.
- Start with the shortest and biggest routes first (for Newark this may be Boston or something like that, but not Los Angeles or Heathrow)
- Try to avoid competition. For example, you will offer a new route; maybe it is better to fly to a slightly smaller airport with no competition instead going on a fullfilled route, but never fly to those "1 aircraft and the demand is served"-airports at this time (or only if it's a time filler).
- If there is competition to every airport, imagine you are alone. The demand from Newark to Atlanta is 1500 and there are already 1700 seats offered? Thats the very perfect moment to throw another 1800 seats on that route.
- Be online often as possible (used market)
Curse nailed it. That's almost exactly what I'd say as well even in the same order.
Quote from: JJP on July 26, 2010, 02:42:00 AM
I've always played in medium-sized airports (e.g. St. Louis right now in Air Travel Boom) where no one really bothers me too much. I'm able to usually hold my own against the huge airlines that try to take market share from me. But, now I think I would like to try my hand at starting at one of the major airports (like Newark).
Can anyone give me some advice for operating at one of these huge airports to which and from which everyone wishes to fly? I'm just curious about the major do's and don'ts (especially when you first start out and then long-term strategies).
If you there is a way o transfer airline, I can give you my JA2 airline out of ORD. It is still in top 10 in most of the categories, but I have not really played it in last 2-3 weeks. I have so many planes sitting around with no routes, that if you put some work into it, you can be in top 3 in no time. And there is 330 mil in cash and some of the aircraft on order has a deposit paid for....
I was about to hit "declare bankruptcy" to concentrate just on ATB, but if you are interested and sami allows it, you can have it.
BTW, the most frustrating thing about big airports is that they run out of slots, and it is a lot more difficult to run competition out of business (to free up some slots). if someone starts at a big airport, the player has to do just about everything badly to go out of business (or be pushed out of business), since there is pretty much infinite demand.
If you want a BIG airport with NO SLot problem, Try Dallas Ft. Worth, that place as WAYYYYY to many slots.
Quote from: altmants on July 26, 2010, 07:03:30 AM
If you want a BIG airport with NO SLot problem, Try Dallas Ft. Worth, that place as WAYYYYY to many slots.
It's actually still got "WAYYYYY" too
few slots, actually. When I went through and had sami change the slots for the Top 20 or so airports in the US based on FAA data, while DFW was doubled from what it was previously, it was still neutered a bit to keep it more in-line with other major airports in AWS. It should actually be about
triple what it is right now. In terms of sheer capacity, it is probably the largest airport in the world; most certainly far and away the largest in the US. DFW is capable of supporting an arrival or departure activity
every 10 seconds, about 350 A/Ds per hour, which equates to 175 "slots" per hour in AWS -- in-game it operates with about 50-60 depending on the timeframe you're looking at.
And, in previous games, I alone have filled up almost the entirety of DFW slots even after the upgrade, though it is certainly harder than it was when it was tiny (had like 24/hr my first 2 games here). It can easily be done if you want to because of the sheer Domestic demand and because about 95% of it is domestic demand that can be served by smaller regional aircraft (hence more slots needed) due to its central location.
yes, i see your point. But still, it is def a "BIG" airport that most likely will have more available slots than JFK for example.
ON the side note, yea, the airport is huge! In terms of land area it has 18,076 acres with 7 runways.
On the downside though, it being so big, when I flew in to DFW from LAX, it took 20-30mins to taxi from the runway to the gate!!!
Thank you everyone for your comments. I have edited the OP to reflect I only meant in a
new game! :P
Quote from: Curse on July 26, 2010, 02:50:17 AM
- Start with the shortest and biggest routes first (for Newark this may be Boston or something like that, but not Los Angeles or Heathrow)
Really? I always thought all ya'll made huge HUGE money by flying those massive transatlantic flights that have 150+ F demand and 350+ C demand. Especially, when they're not that long of flights (<3,000 nm). But, I also understand that lots of shorter flight can generate big $$. I was just thinking that you want to lock in the big Atlantic flights in the beginning, but I don't know. That's why I'm asking!!
Quote from: JumboShrimp on July 26, 2010, 05:54:25 AM
If you there is a way o transfer airline, I can give you my JA2 airline out of ORD. It is still in top 10 in most of the categories, but I have not really played it in last 2-3 weeks. I have so many planes sitting around with no routes, that if you put some work into it, you can be in top 3 in no time. And there is 330 mil in cash and some of the aircraft on order has a deposit paid for....
I was about to hit "declare bankruptcy" to concentrate just on ATB, but if you are interested and sami allows it, you can have it.
Thanks for the offer. I only meant to have a discussion about starting in a new game. But thanks!
Quote
BTW, the most frustrating thing about big airports is that they run out of slots, and it is a lot more difficult to run competition out of business (to free up some slots). if someone starts at a big airport, the player has to do just about everything badly to go out of business (or be pushed out of business), since there is pretty much infinite demand.
The one thing I worry about at big airports is that you usually have 6+ players there. Does this create a big problem? Or, is it because there is so much demand that all those players can find good routes and grow easily?
You must have some good CI (>50 or >60) to fullfill the offered Business and First Class seats on intercontinental flights.
Also out of five or six airline there will only survive one or two.
Quote from: Curse on July 26, 2010, 10:46:07 AM
Also out of five or six airline there will only survive one or two.
And for some cases (most of them), the big airports are big enough to hold 2 airlines there. It is greater chances at a huge airport with 2 airlines rather than at 1 airline at category 3 or 4 airport.
Quote from: JJP on July 26, 2010, 10:40:15 AM
Really? I always thought all ya'll made huge HUGE money by flying those massive transatlantic flights that have 150+ F demand and 350+ C demand. Especially, when they're not that long of flights (<3,000 nm). But, I also understand that lots of shorter flight can generate big $$. I was just thinking that you want to lock in the big Atlantic flights in the beginning, but I don't know. That's why I'm asking!!
Really depends on the airport. What it's demand is, how many slots it's got, how many competitors you need to worry about.
If you're shooting for biggest in terms of Value, then yes, an early international strategy is often your best bet. But you run the risk of not utilizing enough slots quick enough if you have competition. So, while you may end up profitable, your competitor may end up holding 75% of the slots. Then he's got a
much easier job of manipulating those slots to go after your fewer routes than you have of doing the same with your much fewer slots against his many more routes.
Dense, short routes are the best of both worlds -- you eat up lots of slots ("land-grabbing" so to speak) and you get very profitable routes. The fewer routes you've got, the less overhead, so let your competition go after other routes while you spam dense routes with lots of planes/flights. Your Route Map might not be as impressive early-on, but eventually you'll have them beat with much lower overhead costs which will be a huge plus when you eventually have to go head-to-head with the competition.
^^^^ exactly what I did in Mexico in MT2. I effectively own the whole country with a couple pockets of competition. Now I have the big A340s rolling in (mostly purchased) and am able to get almost all of the long IC routes.
Quote from: JJP on July 26, 2010, 10:43:18 AM
Thanks for the offer. I only meant to have a discussion about starting in a new game. But thanks!
The one thing I worry about at big airports is that you usually have 6+ players there. Does this create a big problem? Or, is it because there is so much demand that all those players can find good routes and grow easily?
Finding good routes and growing fast initially is easy. Finding slots later on to be able to keep growing is more difficult. You have to open a 2nd base. Usually, there is a lot more demand than slots to fill the demand.
Thanks for the great advice, everyone! :) Thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it.
If you have still problems in the future, PM me and I'll send you a list with a lot of stategy hints I wrote down for my alliance and people who have problems to be successful in AWS. But for sure it makes more fun to find out these things by yourself and not looking into a strategy guide ;)
Quote from: Curse on July 26, 2010, 11:56:49 PM
If you have still problems in the future, PM me and I'll send you a list with a lot of stategy hints I wrote down for my alliance and people who have problems to be successful in AWS. But for sure it makes more fun to find out these things by yourself and not looking into a strategy guide ;)
Thanks. 8)
Curse, how many airlines do you have in ATB? I hope you have one and fergot to change your forum signature. ;)
One, the nice one in KLAX went down when I spontaneously had to leave for 10 days :'(