REALLY?
This crap is a freaking joke.
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Maybe he wants to start a side business as a leasing company.
Why spend money on expensive configuration if the end user will probably reconfigure based on his own specifications...
hmm, I thought that wasn't possible anymore :P
Quote from: JumboShrimp on July 21, 2010, 07:35:58 PM
Maybe he wants to start a side business as a leasing company.
Why spend money on expensive configuration if the end user will probably reconfigure based on his own specifications...
So you add 45 million to the price over value... but that's just NOT enough... so you save around $1.5m on seating.
Sorry, bull$hit.
What's the problem? If you lease the aircraft, you reconfigurate it and use it...
wow, great deal! lol
Don't like it, don't lease it. Simple! :)
Setting aside the "Don't like it - don't lease it" thought (which I agree with);
What is the purpose of doing that ?
Regards
Richard
Quote from: Riger on July 22, 2010, 01:46:09 AM
Setting aside the "Don't like it - don't lease it" thought (which I agree with);
What is the purpose of doing that ?
Suppose you have more money than you know what to do with running your airline. One way to "invest" the money is to order highly desirable planes which you don't really need (put an order in the queue).
A lot of people want these highly desirable planes, but with the new ordering system, you can get them extremely slowly. Rather than wait 2 or more years game time, with your money tied up there, people might be willing to buy (or lease) an aircraft at premium, getting it right away (within 2 weeks).
So the player in question is basically exploiting the new ordering system with slow delivery times by getting in many desirable queues and selling (or leasing) at an inflated price.
I dont think that's what's at question, JumboShrimp; but rather why someone would configure a brand new plane with only 30 seats.
At one point in time this was a decidedly under-handed tactic to screw over unknowledgeable players by not only hoping they'd pay you WAY more than a plane is worth but also have to spend millions more reconfiguring it. It was often done with cheaper planes that newer players would buy, then find they had nowhere near the cash to reconfigure the whole thing and they'd go bankrupt. It'd be a bit less effective as such a tactic with such an expensive plane.
Hm. There are really players that use the standard configurations? I might understand this with the first five or six aircraft in a new game, but those are normally sold by AI dealers.
Quote from: Curse on July 22, 2010, 02:41:21 AM
Hm. There are really players that use the standard configurations? I might understand this with the first five or six aircraft in a new game, but those are normally sold by AI dealers.
so intentionally putting it as 30 hd seats is cool... SURE... You should always have some setting that would be on the plane. (which Sami said shouldnt be in this game any more after people were re-configuring other player's planes with 6 HD seats before returning the plane to them)
Many of you here defending the practice are often those SAME people who complain about other "unfair acts". You honestly should be politicians.
From now on, if I see certain people complaining about: Oversupplying lines, having 10x flights leave at 22:55pm going to the same destination, or anything similar, I will just remember to bookmark this one for you to read....
Quote from: swiftus27 on July 22, 2010, 02:59:21 AM
From now on, if I see certain people complaining about: Oversupplying lines, having 10x flights leave at 22:55pm going to the same destination, or anything similar, I will just remember to bookmark this one for you to read....
At first - I never complained about one of these things.
Second - I don't understand why you offense me.
Who the hell is flying a B777-200 in standard configuration? With those silly premium business seats? In a 10 first class to 25 business class ratio?
So in my opinion there is no difference if an used aircraft comes with 30HD Seats or with standard seating, both is s*** to use. And at the moment there is no difference if you reconfigurate an aircraft complete or only remove some business and add some first class seats.
Also nobody can lease an aircraft for nearly 10 Million and will go bankrupt because he must pay 1.5 Million Dollar for a reconfiguration...
I lease plenty in the games I play.
I have ordered many 737s just to lease to others.
My 736s are 108/5
My 73Gs are 120/5
My 738s are 150/10
All standard seating. Yeah, it may not be the ideal setting for all situations. However, I bet that most people would probably keep this setup if this is how it came. There really is NO need to pay an extra million just to add or take out a few seats at all.
That 777 douchy setup that I feel is solely there to catch someone off guard.... When you are worth billions that extra 0.01% really counts to the bottom line, really. It does.
I am just sick of people preaching the spirit of the game and when this stuff happens, very few will actually speak up.
Quote from: Sigma on July 22, 2010, 02:31:07 AM
I dont think that's what's at question, JumboShrimp; but rather why someone would configure a brand new plane with only 30 seats.
At one point in time this was a decidedly under-handed tactic to screw over unknowledgeable players by not only hoping they'd pay you WAY more than a plane is worth but also have to spend millions more reconfiguring it. It was often done with cheaper planes that newer players would buy, then find they had nowhere near the cash to reconfigure the whole thing and they'd go bankrupt. It'd be a bit less effective as such a tactic with such an expensive plane.
That's a good point about buyers who may be new to the game to check these things.
But as far as I know, if you want to remove a couple of row of seats and change them with different type of seats, you always pay for the entire reconfiguration. So it does not matter if the configuration you are buying has 30 HD economy seats or a default configuration. Especially in a big plane like 777. I bet most players would reconfigure to customize it for the route it would be used for.
Quote from: swiftus27 on July 22, 2010, 03:28:20 AM...
With "standard seating" I meant the configuration, not the seating quality.
I also think it's not very nice to sell some aircraft with such a setting on the used market, but in my opinion there are much more negative things in the AWS world.
So I care about problems, but I don't see everything black or white. This here is grey - it's not very nice, but most people reconfigurate their aircraft and 1.5 Million are not much - and in fact nobody is forced to lease/buy this aircraft.
Obviously someone seems to be buying the aircraft - perhaps if they didnt they would soon get the message.
low and behold... another one...
SAMI, IS THIS GOING TO BE AN ACCEPTED PRACTICE????
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This is why I find this stuff to be just stupid, rude, and against the fair play standards of AWS
The 30HD costs a total of 168,950,230
The normal setup costs a total of 170,500,430
Wow, way to squeeze out a 1.55m profit when you are charging 27m over its value (and possibly up to 40m over what you paid for it)
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Quote from: Curse on July 22, 2010, 04:04:32 AM
I also think it's not very nice to sell some aircraft with such a setting on the used market, but in my opinion there are much more negative things in the AWS world.
So I care about problems, but I don't see everything black or white. This here is grey - it's not very nice, but most people reconfigurate their aircraft and 1.5 Million are not much - and in fact nobody is forced to lease/buy this aircraft.
Curse, I respectfully disagree with you;
If the aircraft had a bad, but usable configuration, then that is ok, but to intentionally attempt to "trick" people into buying an aircraft that cannot be used .... that is not in the spirit of the game.
Regarding the other "much more negative" things in the game, what are you referring to?
Best Regards
Richard
Examples of Bad Behaviors:
Route dumping. Hence the 200% rule.
Specifically targeting other's routes.
Having alliances specifically target one airline's routes.
Slot gouging at major airports with crappy little F.27s (many of you do this)
Returning leased A/C to their player-owners after changing the seating to 3 HD seats only (sort of fixed, it seemed)
Going bankrupt so others can get those planes early. (fixed by Sami awhile ago... if you went bankrupt all planes went on used market right away)
Quote from: Riger on July 23, 2010, 03:34:24 PM
If the aircraft had a bad, but usable configuration, then that is ok, but to intentionally attempt to "trick" people into buying an aircraft that cannot be used .... that is not in the spirit of the game.
Regarding the other "much more negative" things in the game, what are you referring to?
The aircraft can be used. It only takes four ingame days and some cash.
The much more negative things swiftus27 posted already.
Let me say it again;
1) Nobody must buy/lease this aircraft.
2) Everybody can reconfigurate this aircraft if he get's it for little money.
3) The game standard configuration for B777-200 is crap, so please stop using it! ;)
I really don't see the problem. If De Gaulle wants to sell his aircraft with these conditions it is his choice. He is the owner of this aircraft and if he decides he will destroy it with a giant bulldozer he can.
It's only his business what he is doing with his aircraft.
All I am asking is at least try. As I said on the last page, all of the a/c that I plan on leasing out have a setup that most would use without spending alot on changing them out.
Using the defense of "He can do what he wants with his planes" means he should be allowed to do most of the ills posted by me previously.
Essentially, why not just have the plane empty for sale??? Oh, that's because Sami specifically did something to prevent that from happening.
Configuring any plane like that especially large ones with the least high density seats should not be allowed by the system anyway.
Yes it shouldn't be and that's why I wondered that how this was possible. But I see it did allow that so made the setting a bit tighter now, you need about 150 Y seats at least into 777 if no C/F class.
Why not make a requirement that the plane is "full of seats"?
Quote from: swiftus27 on July 23, 2010, 04:02:47 PM
Examples of Bad Behaviors:
Route dumping. Hence the 200% rule.
Specifically targeting other's routes.
Having alliances specifically target one airline's routes.
Slot gouging at major airports with crappy little F.27s (many of you do this)
Returning leased A/C to their player-owners after changing the seating to 3 HD seats only (sort of fixed, it seemed)
Going bankrupt so others can get those planes early. (fixed by Sami awhile ago... if you went bankrupt all planes went on used market right away)
I have to agree with Swiftus on this - most of the above still happens alot! :(
Because you can adjust the pax comfort feeling with putting more or less seats into an aircraft. It is shown in the configuration menu as "poor", "fair", "good" and "excellent"
I don't know what sort of "history" there is for people abusing the system or fellow AWS players with regard to a/c configuration, but is it possible that his high selling prices and horrible configuration are intended to discourage anyone from buying or leasing his a/c (i.e., perhaps he is just using the used market to temporarily "store" his a/c so as not to pay unnecessary expenses for the time being)?
Just a thought.
Thats a good thought and totally plausible for them to have done that as AWS doesnt model aircraft storage -and storage IMO is certainly another feature that AWS requires - sure SAMi will be looking at that in future versions along with the other 1000's of feature requests that get asked for ;D
It's possible he is just storing it for good reason to him but being a totally brand new aircraft, its kinda hard to believe.
Quote from: Paul the Octopus on July 23, 2010, 06:50:23 PM
It's possible he is just storing it for good reason to him but being a totally brand new aircraft, its kinda hard to believe.
Since he's got one more hub available to launch maybe he is waiting for several a/c to be delivered and then he's going to drop a "new hub bomb" on someone with several a/c at once. ??? IN the meantime he "stores" the a/c in the used market and makes them undesirable so he doesn't inadvertently lose them (or if someone is foolish enough to buy or lease them he has made a killing in profits so doesn't mind so much).
Whilst we're complaining, what about people who put Aircraft on the market with only a couple of months left on c/d checks? Surely you should only be able to sell aircraft with full D and C Checks??!! (Some unsuspecting person may lease them!). And why is it when I've started a route, someone else can come along and ruin my profit by putting flights on the route??!!
What a daft argument. He's hurting himself by doing this as it makes the plane less desirable. And if the person who leased it BK's, he's lost out as it's going to be returned to him, possibly in a poor condition because the checks have not been carried out.
Get over it! :)
Quote from: GoGreenCEO on July 23, 2010, 07:02:41 PM
Since he's got one more hub available to launch maybe he is waiting for several a/c to be delivered and then he's going to drop a "new hub bomb" on someone with several a/c at once. ??? IN the meantime he "stores" the a/c in the used market and makes them undesirable so he doesn't inadvertently lose them (or if someone is foolish enough to buy or lease them he has made a killing in profits so doesn't mind so much).
why would you "hub bomb" someone with planes you have to pay to then have re configured anyways? Wouldn't you simply use a decent setting of your own. That just doesnt make sense to me.
I also buy some aircraft and decide until they are delivered I must reconfig them. I also get aicraft from the used market and decide after that how I configure them.
There are a lot of possibilities, but even he is doing this just because he's an ass, in my opinion this is ok. Nobody must lease those aircraft as nobody must lease aircraft with C/D-Check soon... and nobody must do C-Checks/D-Checks until he gives the aircraft back.
Curse, the problem is that this is EXACTLY the same defense one can use for almost ALL of the other ills in this game.
I got 25 F.27s and need to use them, why not fly to Paris 75x daily from LHR?
Because the slots are a necessary game feature. There are only those slots and there are no other slots.
But there are more ways to get a B777-200. And if there were just that only one B777-200, you can spend some money and reconfigurate.
This seating thing can be easy avoided by players. Other things not.
This game is not only here for makeing the time go away, Its also a game where you should make a company go around. What de Gaulle in MT2 is doing is totally fine I think...
nr.1: If someone leases his plane and go Bankrupth.. Bummer, You have learned, restart and use 10 sec to watch the things you should check out before you lease a plane ( C-D check, range and Capasity )
nr.2: If it does not cost you anything to have your planes on "sold" Its a thing that will be fixed i guess in the future. ( still need to pay monthly lease cost as long as you have the plane ?? or ? )
nr.3: This is a game, in Real life, Companys try to survive so their bosses can take out alot of money in Bonus. And since this is a game, in one way or another someone will try to "win" putting 200% on Routes to kill others, Alliances go together to f*** one guy, Its a part of this game. And yes I know, in 85% of Cases the guy with most fleet and money wins. The pax in AWS dont got feelings for the small guy. Lets blame Sami for sucky AI inteligence in the pax.
nr.4: Play your own game and let the others play theirs. Are they overkilling a route with 400% or Use 8 seat planes from JFK to LHR you can cry to Sami. Flying AMS-LHR with a 50 seat plane 20 times a day I actually think would been nice. Just go to the airport and its feel like waiting for the bus. If you miss one its never more then 30 min to next :P
nr.5 : stop nagging like little Children and send good and full reports to Sami about things that needs to be better in the future. And 5 years from now the game is perfect (out of todays standard) but got alot of new problems. ITS A GAME, if you dont like it go get a job on an Airport in Real world
OOOHHHH NO.............I got tricked by 1.5 million when the aircraft is valued at 175million...
You don't like the price, don't buy it. Simple as that.
Regarding "tricking" newbies...If they can afford a 175million dollar aircraft, i'm sure their airline is well off and they aren't completely noobs anymore.
Quote from: GjedDa on July 24, 2010, 06:27:01 AM
This game is not only here for makeing the time go away, Its also a game where you should make a company go around. What de Gaulle in MT2 is doing is totally fine I think...
nr.1: If someone leases his plane and go Bankrupth.. Bummer, You have learned, restart and use 10 sec to watch the things you should check out before you lease a plane ( C-D check, range and Capasity )
nr.2: If it does not cost you anything to have your planes on "sold" Its a thing that will be fixed i guess in the future. ( still need to pay monthly lease cost as long as you have the plane ?? or ? )
nr.3: This is a game, in Real life, Companys try to survive so their bosses can take out alot of money in Bonus. And since this is a game, in one way or another someone will try to "win" putting 200% on Routes to kill others, Alliances go together to f*** one guy, Its a part of this game. And yes I know, in 85% of Cases the guy with most fleet and money wins. The pax in AWS dont got feelings for the small guy. Lets blame Sami for sucky AI inteligence in the pax.
nr.4: Play your own game and let the others play theirs. Are they overkilling a route with 400% or Use 8 seat planes from JFK to LHR you can cry to Sami. Flying AMS-LHR with a 50 seat plane 20 times a day I actually think would been nice. Just go to the airport and its feel like waiting for the bus. If you miss one its never more then 30 min to next :P
nr.5 : stop nagging like little Children and send good and full reports to Sami about things that needs to be better in the future. And 5 years from now the game is perfect (out of todays standard) but got alot of new problems. ITS A GAME, if you dont like it go get a job on an Airport in Real world
I like that post.... ;D