Hi Sami,
we all have spoken about 2 hubs and you have been amazing in listening to our whining and soon its gonna be introduced. Not many have thought about side effects of it.
For eg:
Italy : people can have 2 good hubs MXP- FCO or FCO-LIN, MXP-LIN,
UK: LHR-MAN, LGW-LHR etc etc etc
IND-BOM-DEL
my point here is wont this make a airline grow more rapidly than in normal games and to a unrelaistic level with soo much traffic out of 2 main hubs.
What are the conditions/restrictions we will have on dual hubs?
Is it one should be a big base andother smaller or
within a certain distance eg: over 500-750 nm? or
???
Dual hubs is a great feature but I can see more carnage in it with some players growing more than the VS+ of a concorde LOL :)
regards
VJC
my opinion on this matter is there should be no restrictions at all, if you choose to have your first hub at any of the majors you must expect to get bogged down in the slot issue, it happens get over it.
however if you then choose to have your 2nd hub at a major too, well, you can't complain really.
a lot of us players who don't base at the majors still make huge profits and have lots of slots to spare.
the only real downside to hubbing at smaller airports is not being able to run a fleet 747s. the reason why heathrow and others have the majority of the worlds fleet of 747s is simply down to slot usage, can't run 5x daily to wherever then run 1x daily 747!
the way to combat the slot issue is to somehow put a penalty on airlines who run more than lets say 5 fleet types to gain more slots quickly.
just my personal opinion.
best regards ban2
I don't think you can get a secondary hub at the start of a game...
Yes,. Better wait till the feature is live and then comment on how you like it.
please please please please keepe v1.11 games around. Some ppl won't want to play with dual hubs.
Quote from: swiftus27 on March 27, 2010, 02:01:38 PM
please please please please keepe v1.11 games around. Some ppl won't want to play with dual hubs.
Lol
Quote from: ban2 on March 27, 2010, 12:39:54 PM
the way to combat the slot issue is to somehow put a penalty on airlines who run more than lets say 5 fleet types to gain more slots quickly.
just my personal opinion.
best regards ban2
I totally agree. some people out of LHR or Kai Tak or HND etc are buying any plane they can get their hands on just to reserve slots. there was this one guy who bought up, like, 50 Dash 8s and 30 ERJs at JFK to reserve slots for his airline, then overnight when he got enough money, he replaced his fleet of 80 aircraft with 747s, 777s, 767s, A340s, A380s (later in the game, maybe 2009), A320s and A330s. THAT is when you KNOW what they did....... ::)
Sorry to say it like this, but I call it the Magic Carpet rule. He wasn't doing anything wrong per se, but his airlines were not getting punished enough for leasing EVERYTHING on the used market. I remember one game out of Narita he ruled the whole world.
Perhaps we could have commonality penalties for flying multiple types in the same size category? Why does an airline need 3+ types of very large or large planes?
You shouldnt be allowed to fly the A320 737 and the MD88 all at the same time.
Perhaps it should be like this... You can fly two-three types of very large and large (in each category), and two types of medium and small.
I mean, Continental Airlines flies the 737/757/767/777 (with some 787s on order). They fly the ERJ/CRJ and the Dash 8 in the medium category and the B1900 in the small.
Quote from: swiftus27 on March 27, 2010, 06:24:14 PM
Sorry to say it like this, but I call it the Magic Carpet rule. He wasn't doing anything wrong per se, but his airlines were not getting punished enough for leasing EVERYTHING on the used market. I remember one game out of Narita he ruled the whole world.
Perhaps we could have commonality penalties for flying multiple types in the same size category? Why does an airline need 3+ types of very large or large planes?
You shouldnt be allowed to fly the A320 737 and the MD88 all at the same time.
You should be
allowed to do whatever the heck you want (within reason).
But there should be mechanics that keep it somewhat under some level of realistic control. And with the recent changes on fleet commonality penalties being hugely higher than they were in the past, Magic Carpet's modus operandi simply wouldn't work anymore. Or, at the very least, wouldn't work nearly as well.
Bottom-line though is that this, and most other, problems that people complain about would be solved with more realistic profit margins than we have today. But then people would have other things to complain about -- i.e. the game would be a lot harder and slower.
Quote from: Sigma on March 27, 2010, 06:28:18 PM
Bottom-line though is that this, and most other, problems that people complain about would be solved with more realistic profit margins than we have today. But then people would have other things to complain about -- i.e. the game would be a lot harder and slower.
quote of the week. I agree 100% that 50% LFs shouldn't make you as much money as it does. There are 2 airlines in Sydney making a TON of money.
Heh... good'lo carpet... where is he anyway? Im up for bankrupting his airline once again 8)
- Talentz
I'm with sami. Wait until its introduced, then decide whats bad and whats good.
Quote from: Sigma on March 27, 2010, 06:28:18 PM
You should be allowed to do whatever the heck you want (within reason).
that is exactly what we dont want here. In real life there diff governing bodies, who impose rules, penalites, restrictions. Here its difficult.
I completley agree with Sami, lets wait and watch , but from previous experiences (as we all know) if a airline can have 300+ fleet in V1 or V1.1 with good demand you know defo see the how dual hubs are gonna end up, we are shall see more unrelastic game play by certain members. fleet numbers may be rise dramtically.
In even real life there is no airline with 350+ fleet, so just a thought to think right now and get prepared. Intresting times ahead.
VJC
Quote from: V.Castelino on March 27, 2010, 07:12:28 PM
In even real life there is no airline with 350+ fleet, so just a thought to think right now and get prepared. Intresting times ahead.
VJC
Actually in real life there are currently 4 passenger airlines and 1 cargo airline operating more than 350 aircraft.
Delta Airlines - 752
American Airlines - 612
Southwest Airlines - 547
United Airlines - 359
FedEx Airlines - 672
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_largest_airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_largest_airlines)
I have asked for a secondary hub since the first day I arrived here. The reason... I dont like to play in the big hubs, so I choose a medium ariport. For example I´m in BIO now and after four years I´m flying ALL THE ROUTES WITH MORE THAN 20 PAX, so I think a secondary hub could be interesting for me in order not to be bored in the game.
I´m not thinking in an airline with two hubs in two big airports, it could make the game a 10 airlines game in a few years.
Quote from: ucfknightryan on March 27, 2010, 09:02:57 PM
Actually in real life there are currently 4 passenger airlines and 1 cargo airline operating more than 350 aircraft.
Delta Airlines - 752
American Airlines - 612
Southwest Airlines - 547
United Airlines - 359
FedEx Airlines - 672
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_largest_airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_largest_airlines)
what I meant was in 10 yrs? I forgot to mention that, my mistake.
Quote from: V.Castelino on March 27, 2010, 11:46:48 PM
what I meant was in 10 yrs? I forgot to mention that, my mistake.
Ah, ok. I'll agree with that. ;D
I think the very rapid growth mostly comes back to the fact that games right now begin with huge demand, and absolutely no supply. Also the aircraft manufacturers don't have huge backlogs of orders from established airlines delaying availability of new aircraft.
I don't know that multiple hubs will really make this problem much worse though, since at the same time we're losing the A-B-C-B-A and A-B-C-A routes. You'd need
lots of hubs to make up for how much demand that takes away access to. Guess we'll just have to wait for v1.2 and see ;D
true,
will be great to see how dual hubs lure people towards their destiny (DOOM) LOL
BTW
If we choose 2 hubs , will there be more capital amount to start with ??? or more loan amount available.
VJC
so, how will the dual hub rule work?
Is it 2 hubs, limited to your country?
I've always assumed you get the option to open secondary hubs after playing for a certain length of time and/or other criteria. Maybe like 10 aircraft based at your primary hub or something.
Quote from: Filippo on March 28, 2010, 02:40:32 PM
so, how will the dual hub rule work?
Is it 2 hubs, limited to your country?
Sami said
'There is no need to speculate on that. It will be done like it's done in reality.
Bases are allowed at home country. Or at the common economic area (EU) after it has introduced an openskies system. If you choose Singapore as your base, then you just fly out from Singapore - simple.
There are also other openskies areas than just EU but I have not yet investigated what freedoms of air they include (I did see them somewhere but failed to bookmark the site or the page at one of my books...)' in this (https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,34.msg88508.html#msg88508) thread :)
I'd imagine that is partly why the country dynamics have been chnaged and were part of the previews. This will allow things like the EU to grow, as new member states join over time. I wonder if this means that you'll be able add hubs elsewhere in the EU, if you're based in a country that joins the EU mid-game
I think that Sami will let people open new hubs only in their home country... If you're based in Hong Kong, it's your fault! :)
what Sami set it as is that you can set up hubs in your base country for somewhat cheap, but you can also set up a hub at a smaller airport in a neighboring country, although it will cost you an arm and a leg. If you're based in a single-city-country, like Singapore or Hong Kong, you obviously cannot use that feature for your own country, but you can use a SMALL airport in a neighboring country (I don't think that Hong Kong and Macau will be allowed as the demand would be too much).
That's what I remember seeing, although I could be COMPLETELY wrong about all of that, but that's my story and i'm sticking with it. ;D
ICEcold
Oh great, this just means that the people that get an early start will be able to completly dominate 2 airports instead of just one. And you think slots are a problem now.......
All of these questions explain why a lot of us are so excited to see how the beta works. I'm sure a lot of what you mentioned above will happen, and they'll probably be some other unexpected outcomes also. Sami, I want to either be in that beta or to have a very full report of how it went! Anyway that you could make it open to the public so that we could browse around to see what's going on without joining it? Because I think a lot of us would like to see how it plays. And if we don't get to see it, the beta players will have a very real advantage in the first normal game by knowing how it plays. Not that that matter that much... But surely you can open it up, no?
Thanks,
Auerbacs
In fact, is there no way to open all games to spectators. I wouldn't mind having a peak in Modern Times but I can't because I only play the Jet Age? Would that be hard to set up?
the Jet Age is still using V1.11 engine......
It's a feature I would like to. Joining games becomes a leap of faith and hope you can find a decent airport with good amount of slots left.
I know that all games are still using the old version. I just think in general it would be nice to be able to peek in games in which you're not involved and look around. As knutm said, it also helps to know if a certain airport you enjoy playing is open without having to pay the 5 credits starting fee to find out.
you means a quick search on airport data even you are not in the world? That look nice :) or maybe this can be displayed as a page telling others which airport are based with airlines and how many airlines based there