Hi folks!
I know that Sami has posted that he was not planning on opening another scenario too. However, I would really love one. The current games are still ongoing for a while. But the youngest, 'Dawn of the Mill' has also already progressed some 20%. 'The modern times' is about half through and hence that far that starting there is difficult. 'Euro Challenge' is too hard to enter at this stage for competition. 'Rise of the modern airliners' is full at 38% progress. How about generally offering a new scenario, ones the youngest is at around 25% of progress? That could be a good mark for players in general to get an idea, when a new scenario may start and for those who failed as in Dawn of the Mill, they can quickly learn from their mistakes and soon give it another shot. I am looking forward for the airwaysim engine update, but would welcome another scenario in between.
Denis
That would be great!!!
;D
I just started Rise of the Modern Airliners less than 24 hours ago. I'm doing good and guess what..... I'm in JFK. Shocking?
People start to bankrupt sooner or later, there's still great potential in those games.
Air Paris (at CDG with 125 a/c) just bankrupted in DOTM :o :o!
Quote from: Unbornio on December 19, 2009, 02:38:21 PM
I just started Rise of the Modern Airliners less than 24 hours ago. I'm doing good and guess what..... I'm in JFK. Shocking?
People start to bankrupt sooner or later, there's still great potential in those games.
No, it is not at all. You are in a beginner's game limited to 150 players in a world wide game. And it's full, at the moment.
Quite a different thing to be in the same game world with 375 players that's 20% on its way. From experience, a new player will have heck breaking into any decent airport or route.
I'd love to give Sami some money, but will have to wait until a new game arrives...
Sooner or later, people will leave the game. Just wait a bit.
For the 375 player game, you still can manage with smaller airports. You have to remember during the 90-00s.. there is almost double growth each year.
Well yeah I agree a new scenario every time the newest game in progress hits 20 - 30%
Euro challenge and modern time are definitely not full. Probably easier to star now than at 0%.
Quote from: Powi on December 20, 2009, 03:06:07 PM
Euro challenge and modern time are definitely not full. Probably easier to star now than at 0%.
I agree. Much easier now.
Quote from: Pike on December 19, 2009, 04:51:50 PM
No, it is not at all. You are in a beginner's game limited to 150 players in a world wide game. And it's full, at the moment.
Quite a different thing to be in the same game world with 375 players that's 20% on its way. From experience, a new player will have heck breaking into any decent airport or route.
I'd love to give Sami some money, but will have to wait until a new game arrives...
The game you refer to has 287 out of availible 375 players.
Quote from: DenisG on December 19, 2009, 02:21:36 PM
Hi folks!
I know that Sami has posted that he was not planning on opening another scenario too. However, I would really love one. The current games are still ongoing for a while. But the youngest, 'Dawn of the Mill' has also already progressed some 20%. 'The modern times' is about half through and hence that far that starting there is difficult. 'Euro Challenge' is too hard to enter at this stage for competition. 'Rise of the modern airliners' is full at 38% progress. How about generally offering a new scenario, ones the youngest is at around 25% of progress? That could be a good mark for players in general to get an idea, when a new scenario may start and for those who failed as in Dawn of the Mill, they can quickly learn from their mistakes and soon give it another shot. I am looking forward for the airwaysim engine update, but would welcome another scenario in between.
Denis
well said
What you are all saying that joining an already started game world is easier is true, but still, some players want a new game.
I think I would join in a new game if I like the time frame. The point is that even if it is arguably easier to join a started game world, it is not as exciting. Besides, you always have the preoccupation that if you join and the hub you were planning to be at is full, you have to chose another one - the point being that the games are already mostly full of well expanded airlines, even though the game is not full.
Moreover, what do you care if another game-world is opened? Maybe a small one, of 150 places or so, just to allow more players to fit in. If I was a new player I wouldn't be so secure on starting a big, already started game - I would be looking for something smaller and new, with less competition (at least for a while), thus easier to get more experience after a beginner's world.
Probably, this "fear" of joining a started world is given by the fact that we can't see inside worlds without paying. I know I am drifting a bit off topic, but they are correlated issues according to my thoughts! It's a bit like when you go to the bookshop and you have sealed books. Usually, you are less enclined to buy them as you can't see what's inside - the same is applied to AWS.
I would like a new game, or the possibility to peek inside already started ones (to eliminate this "post-started fear") in order to keep things moving.
Quote from: Filippo on December 21, 2009, 06:23:36 PM
What you are all saying that joining an already started game world is easier is true, but still, some players want a new game.
I think I would join in a new game if I like the time frame. The point is that even if it is arguably easier to join a started game world, it is not as exciting. Besides, you always have the preoccupation that if you join and the hub you were planning to be at is full, you have to chose another one - the point being that the games are already mostly full of well expanded airlines, even though the game is not full.
Moreover, what do you care if another game-world is opened? Maybe a small one, of 150 places or so, just to allow more players to fit in. If I was a new player I wouldn't be so secure on starting a big, already started game - I would be looking for something smaller and new, with less competition (at least for a while), thus easier to get more experience after a beginner's world.
Probably, this "fear" of joining a started world is given by the fact that we can't see inside worlds without paying. I know I am drifting a bit off topic, but they are correlated issues according to my thoughts! It's a bit like when you go to the bookshop and you have sealed books. Usually, you are less enclined to buy them as you can't see what's inside - the same is applied to AWS.
I would like a new game, or the possibility to peek inside already started ones (to eliminate this "post-started fear") in order to keep things moving.
The problem is that each game consumes a lot of free space on the server, it takes time to provide and generaly there will be less players and less fun in each game if more are opened. I can assure you that I wish Euro Challenge was full. There are hundreds of free routes and the game is still half empty but running for a long time. Yet people leave. The same goes for other games. If they would stick with one game and focused it would all get more interesting - full game means a lot of small airlines that can take down a big one if he's not carefull ;)
Look at the big games - 283 / 375 Dawn of the Millenium. It's a whole world. There is no way in which you can fill all the things in there even if there were max players. And 285 players mean there will be like hundreds of big airports still free. Just focus more on a small airport at first, pay some time to chose a route and you can start almost anywhere. Even on the big, crowded airports. I saw a new guy starting in my city where I dominate and he is still there now, years later. Partly because I am not trying to destroy him but partly mostly because he is playing a different style = not going for the big shots, just playing with the small planes, sneaking around me and I respect that. I even have to throw some of my fleet at him now because he is growing too fast and I am getting worried ;)
Ok, I accept the fact, but I would still enjoy a new game!
But, there is still this "post-start" fear of joining. I would therefore really like the ability to peak in a game to see how it is. I would like to join the Euro Scenario, but I'm scared that where I want to fly is already saturated!
A few comments ..
If I were here only to make money, I would of course open a new scenario when ever someone requests it to maximize the joinings and so on. But since it's not about that but rather about offering a good service and good and longlasting play experience it's really not possible to open "huge amounts" of game worlds very often. That's merely because the current ones are not very full either at the moment. And opening new game worlds (even only for 150 plrs) or allowing the current worlds to drop to very low player numbers (due to new worlds opening) would lead to faster "boredom" of the remaining players there..
I understand that since many of you would like to start fresh from a new world you are not happy in starting in existing world. But I could say that I am trying to think of alternative solutions to the game world start issue anyway - as basically I would like to see a situation where every player starts in "existing scenario" as that's the reality. The current startup situation with loads on unfilled pax demand isn't very realistic and it pushes also players in requesting new scenarios to get the fresh and clean starts. (but feel free to discuss this matter on feature rq forum).
But what I can say joining any of the three big worlds at this point is not a hard task at all. Just pick your airport well, I mean look at the airlines there and number of slots, that helps already big time. And don't pick JFK, AMS or LHR etc... A global game world could support 1000 players easily.
Ok, but can we still be able to see inside already started games?
Quote from: Filippo on December 22, 2009, 11:05:58 AM
Ok, but can we still be able to see inside already started games?
Which world are you thinking about joining? Maybe if you have a question somebody can answer it :)
yeah, but, I kind of have to see by myself what's going on because there are many factors I need to check and I don't want to give a headache to people! :D
Quote from: Filippo on December 22, 2009, 12:33:43 PM
yeah, but, I kind of have to see by myself what's going on because there are many factors I need to check and I don't want to give a headache to people! :D
Then you have to be and do it ;)
And here is a motivational picture for your courage!
(https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.perthlaw.biz%2FBird%2520Week%25202006%2Fnike.jpg&hash=ce781acb286ad3beb148c208b2a1ee7ddd658042)
thanks, but I'll wait for a new game since I wanted to be based in a big airport.
Quote from: Filippo on December 22, 2009, 01:08:11 PM
thanks, but I'll wait for a new game since I wanted to be based in a big airport.
Then enjoy your quiet wait ;) But again I think you could be on big airport right now. Anyways! Have a nice christmas.
Thank-you! - the same to you
Quote from: Filippo on December 22, 2009, 01:08:11 PM
thanks, but I'll wait for a new game since I wanted to be based in a big airport.
Conair (140 planes) just BK'ed at ORD in Modern Times #1. There's a ton of room for a new airline or three in its place right now...
Quote from: schro on December 23, 2009, 09:10:17 PM
Conair (140 planes) just BK'ed at ORD in Modern Times #1. There's a ton of room for a new airline or three in its place right now...
I am in the Modern Times 1 ;D
Hi folks!
Well, since it appears that our efforts have so far not been very successful in convincing Sami to open another scenario, he has however pointed out that there are efforts under way to implement the incumbent vs. new entry scenario for all players, which we had discussed in earlier threads already.
I personally find this scenario extremely attractive and would like to know how far these initial thoughts have progressed and if some of us players, could give Sami a helping hand in setting this up? For one thing, collection and drawing up of incumbent flight schedules would definitely be a case here, I guess. Anybody interested and willing in supporting Sami on this? I would like to.
Best regards,
Denis
well, there is no real progress on that, just thoughts and such going on. So all ideas and discussion on implementation is welcome of course. With main scope being - how to make joining in middle of world more attractive vs joining at start. The idea of AI airlines running at game start would perhaps be the solution but it is bit against the principles of this multiplayer sim. Or then some changes to demand systems to make less pax appear when there are no airlines but that wouldn't be very realistic.
I'm still a newbie here, but I have had to enter mid=stream in all four current simulations. My guess is that most mid-game entrants are new to the game so, like me, they are in learning mode. The goals then are not to be the BIGGEST but just to be able to build a profitable airline in some niche market. The only thing I would like is to have it easier to tell if there is already an airline at a base when starting up and to be able to see the exisring route map before locking in (perhaps both are already doable and I just missed them) The only other significant obstacle I've seen is getting access to new aircraft one income makes that feasible since, in most cases, the highest demand aircraft have multiyaer backlogs
Quote from: Sumarno on December 24, 2009, 04:36:57 PM
I'm still a newbie here, but I have had to enter mid=stream in all four current simulations. My guess is that most mid-game entrants are new to the game so, like me, they are in learning mode. The goals then are not to be the BIGGEST but just to be able to build a profitable airline in some niche market. The only thing I would like is to have it easier to tell if there is already an airline at a base when starting up and to be able to see the exisring route map before locking in (perhaps both are already doable and I just missed them) The only other significant obstacle I've seen is getting access to new aircraft one income makes that feasible since, in most cases, the highest demand aircraft have multiyaer backlogs
I've entered Modern Times #1 as a new entrant, and I haven't had much of an issue making headway on routes, finding ones that will work for my airline as well as finding aircraft. Sure, for new aircraft, there are significant backlogs, but I've been able to get a significant number of profitable planes from the used markets, especially right after some of the larger bankruptcies. I've also been able to exploit those bankruptcies by adding capacity on routes that lost a major player.
The biggest struggle is to build a base of income that is profitable enough to fund expansion. It might make it easier for new entrants to get a little more capital to start with, which would give some cushioning as they setup a route network. Of course, the inexperienced will still continue leasing out far more aircraft than they can afford and go bankrupt just as fast....
I do agree that being able to figure out demand and current capacity when selecting a base city would make it significantly easier to select a location for better chances at survival. I'm disappointed in the amount of overall demand out of MSP for international long haul routes compared to other major cities.