AirwaySim

Miscellaneous => Archives => Archived Feature requests => Topic started by: Zombie Slayer on September 05, 2013, 01:47:41 AM

Title: [ok] Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Zombie Slayer on September 05, 2013, 01:47:41 AM
With the start of long game worlds, a welcome feature would be the ability to have the system automatically convert schedules from one aircraft type to another via the move schedule function. Assuming all flights meet minimum turn, slot availability, and curfew requirements, a player could click move schedule, be presented with a list of aircraft that are capable of operating the schedule. If a different type is selected, the player would be prompted to confirm they are swapping to a different type, and upon clicking confirm the routes are converted and applied to the new aircraft.

Thoughts? This would save literally a hundred hours in the current JA for me and I am sure others who use 7 day scheduling.

Don
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: dmoose42 on September 05, 2013, 01:54:55 AM
I agree that this would be a great idea and save a lot of time...

To simplify it, I think the auto-switch should force the user to keep the same slot times.  The only challenge will really be curfews, but the user can just manually fix/edit those...

I don't think the auto-switch would save much time from props to jets as those schedules typically need to be completely redone anyway - but transitioning from 737 classic to 737 NG could be greatly simplified...
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: LemonButt on September 05, 2013, 02:17:52 AM
Agreed.  It would have to be in some kind of table form so the columns would be something like "base/destination", "fleet type", "takeoff/arrival/slots", "turnaround", "takeoff/arrival/slots", "action buttons".  The issues will arise when two aircraft have significantly different turnarounds or airspeeds, but it would be awesome if there were an easy way to upgrade from 737 classic to ng, or from BAC 1-11 to F100, DC-9 to MD-80 to MD-90, etc.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: EsquireFlyer on September 05, 2013, 03:47:48 AM
+1. This is a huge nightmare for long worlds.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Aoitsuki on September 05, 2013, 07:21:24 PM
doubt this can be a reality until the dynamic slot system is implemented tho or else he will have to code twice
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Zombie Slayer on September 05, 2013, 07:26:24 PM
Not really....could force the same time slots to be used to avoid conflict. The system would only have to check to see of the current schedule will fit minimum turn times of the selected aircraft, then convert schedules accordingly.

Don
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: dmoose42 on September 06, 2013, 02:04:59 AM
Agree - the only practical way to do this is to force all departure times to remain the same - if curfew is hit, then user is informed that schedule cannot be transferred due to curfew...
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Mr.HP on September 06, 2013, 02:23:36 AM
It's always fun to create hundred/thousand of new routes, even with a slot restricted airport, but a nightmare/bore to death to have a few of them edited  :laugh:

Yes, it's a nice tool to assist in long game format where changing fleet is a must. But IMHO, this is another challenge to the established airlines. If they can't cope with it, and go BK, then more opportunites for new airlines
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Saul Goodman on September 06, 2013, 06:14:05 AM
++1
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Zombie Slayer on October 03, 2013, 12:30:15 AM
Any news on this request, Sami?
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: swiftus27 on October 03, 2013, 12:57:11 AM
guys the issue is with speeds... so many times a "route purchase check" has to be performed....    I could only imagine the server load for that type of stuff.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: FORSBERC on October 11, 2013, 05:22:32 AM
+1 This is a must, especially for comparable aircraft. I am in the process of upgrading Convairs to NAMC YS11 and all criteria is the same. Same aircraft speeds, turn times, aircraft sizes, etc and it simply comes down to changing which aircraft type flies the route. It has nothing to do with slots or anything else. Simply what type of aircraft.

Regarding server speeds, couldn't you just limit the change to XX in a batch?
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Zombie Slayer on October 11, 2013, 12:31:53 PM
guys the issue is with speeds... so many times a "route purchase check" has to be performed....    I could only imagine the server load for that type of stuff.


The solution to that problem is easy..force the new aircraft to use the same departure times regardless of turn time. If it fits on the new plane, it transfers.

Don
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Zombie Slayer on December 10, 2013, 04:18:56 AM
Bump.

This is a must for ease of game play in long game worlds. Implementing this should be simple....make the system keep the exact same departure times on each end of each flight and simply check that no curfews are broken on arrival and all minimum turn times are met. Player clicks transfer schedule button, can change fleet type list from drop down menu, and when the player selects the specific plane to transfer schedule to the required checks are performed and as long as all criteria are met the schedule transfers.

Sami, please consider this.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: stevecree on December 10, 2013, 11:48:51 PM
+1 from me, would be a excellent addition.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: [ATA] Frimp on December 11, 2013, 01:24:01 AM
+1 from me.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Mr.HP on December 11, 2013, 04:24:50 AM
Maybe the current way will keep you guys "busy" a little bit, and will not be bored with the no-growth-only-change-fleet phrase?  ;)
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: JJP on December 11, 2013, 04:09:28 PM
 + 1 to this feature.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: AndreiX on December 12, 2013, 10:30:58 PM
+1
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: [ATA] b757capt on December 15, 2013, 04:47:02 AM
+1
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: [ATA] - lilius on December 16, 2013, 06:33:42 PM
-1

Lazyness of the megahuge airlines is an opportunity for smaller ones to catch up. Let effort and dedication be a deciding factor for success.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: [SC] - King Kong on December 16, 2013, 09:20:15 PM
Like this!!!
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Andre on December 17, 2013, 12:20:50 PM
-1

Lazyness of the megahuge airlines is an opportunity for smaller ones to catch up. Let effort and dedication be a deciding factor for success.

I agree with this.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Zombie Slayer on December 17, 2013, 08:59:18 PM
-1

Lazyness of the megahuge airlines is an opportunity for smaller ones to catch up. Let effort and dedication be a deciding factor for success.

Its a game play issue not limited to the "super huge." Time spent manually converting flights assigned to a type being retired to the type replacing it is wasted time. It will cost Sami money as many airlines, both big and small, will choose to bankrupt and leave the game world rather than redo work that has already been done. No matter what the size of the airline, fleet transition is a fact of life in a 70+ year long game and finding a way to make that transition easier should be a priority.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: [ATA] - lilius on December 19, 2013, 06:02:31 PM
Its a game play issue not limited to the "super huge." Time spent manually converting flights assigned to a type being retired to the type replacing it is wasted time. It will cost Sami money as many airlines, both big and small, will choose to bankrupt and leave the game world rather than redo work that has already been done. No matter what the size of the airline, fleet transition is a fact of life in a 70+ year long game and finding a way to make that transition easier should be a priority.

I disagree. This game is not that fast really and you have approx 1 delivery per month of each type. That gives you 15 hours between each delivery. To manually convert schedules is done in less than 5 minutes per plane. I dont feel sorry for the big airlines, in the beginning of the gameworlds none of them complains about spending time, slot hogging or UM-refreshing.

I think it scares away more potential players when the big airlines just gets bigger and airports are controlled by a few bigger airlines.

If you also consider anything costing Sami it must be more profitable for Sami to have 3 small players established instead of one 300 a/c fleet airline.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: ucfknightryan on December 19, 2013, 06:25:38 PM
I disagree. This game is not that fast really and you have approx 1 delivery per month of each type. That gives you 15 hours between each delivery. To manually convert schedules is done in less than 5 minutes per plane. I dont feel sorry for the big airlines, in the beginning of the gameworlds none of them complains about spending time, slot hogging or UM-refreshing.

I think it scares away more potential players when the big airlines just gets bigger and airports are controlled by a few bigger airlines.

If you also consider anything costing Sami it must be more profitable for Sami to have 3 small players established instead of one 300 a/c fleet airline.

Great that's plenty of time, except that the commonality system as it is currently set up will kill your airline if you switch the schedules as aircraft arrive.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: LemonButt on December 19, 2013, 06:57:40 PM
I don't think "automatically" is the right word to use.  If you have 7 day scheduling and have 7 aircraft with 7 flights each, that is 49 flights.  I'm sure everyone has a different method, but what I do is hover over the route, middle-click edit so it opens in a new tab in the background, repeat for all routes.  Then I check the departure time at the remote location, change the fleet type, adjust the turnaround as needed to either use existing slots I already paid for, ensure long enough turnaround so to limit delays, or my old enemy--making sure the aircraft arrives when the airport is open (at curfewed airports).  Then after I have all of the routes right with appropriate turnaround times between flights, I go through all the tabs and click the confirm/OK button.

Considering 7-day scheduling, it would be much easier if there were a "tool" to view all of these flights on one page as I am only adjusting the fleet type and making minor time adjustments.  You could then "borrow" the times from the identical flight numbers from another aircrafts schedule (i.e. source the times from aircraft #1 to use on aircraft #2 using flight numbers) to keep things consistent, otherwise you end up in a long loop of tedious, mind-numbing clicking and adjusting.

IRL the CEO would not be doing this--the route strategies department or otherwise would be, so I don't see why anyone would be adverse to this.  It goes back to printing nametags for employees.  The CEO focuses on strategic execution and not tactical, so if we can make the tactical execution of fleet conversion a 2-click operation versus a 15-click one, I'm all for it and you should be, too.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Sami on December 19, 2013, 07:06:20 PM
Don't know why there is so much "discussion" about this, since it's given that this feature will be made at some point (ref. talk at the 'long games' thread). However it's complicated and error-prone process so the UI and error messaging would have to be clear on this. But have to see if I can make a rough testing version sometime soon (single flight per time only first, but multi-flight/-plane conversion later too)
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: [ATA] - lilius on December 19, 2013, 08:48:46 PM
I open new route from current route so both are open. Close all 7 routes but keep slots. Then reopen 7 from the first "new". I dont sit and convert 7 day scheds.


Great that's plenty of time, except that the commonality system as it is currently set up will kill your airline if you switch the schedules as aircraft arrive.

Does it surprise you this way every time you play?
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: ucfknightryan on December 19, 2013, 10:08:22 PM
I open new route from current route so both are open. Close all 7 routes but keep slots. Then reopen 7 from the first "new". I dont sit and convert 7 day scheds.


Does it surprise you this way every time you play?


No it doesn't surprise me  ::)  Nor does your response actually have anything to do with the problem I described.

If you are a large airline (300+ frames) and you are operating 3 types you pay an extreme penalty for adding a 4th type, and the relative size of this penalty goes up with the size of your airline.  Therefore it becomes necessary to accumulate enough frames of a new type to dispose of every single frame of the old type at one time.  Therefore you must convert 100+ aircraft in a single sitting, which as things stand is monumentally tedious.

Of course sami is working on some solution to the problem of converting between types so hopefully this situation will improve soon.

Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Zombie Slayer on February 13, 2014, 08:41:09 PM
Don't know why there is so much "discussion" about this, since it's given that this feature will be made at some point (ref. talk at the 'long games' thread). However it's complicated and error-prone process so the UI and error messaging would have to be clear on this. But have to see if I can make a rough testing version sometime soon (single flight per time only first, but multi-flight/-plane conversion later too)

Ready and willing to test this feature out, Sami!
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Zombie Slayer on September 16, 2014, 09:16:18 AM
Since you are on an upgrade spree, just thought I would bring this request to the top.  :)
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Zombie Slayer on May 29, 2015, 07:18:25 PM
Also bumping due to the new GW4 thread. This would involve using the "transfer schedule" function on the scheduling page. Click the green arrow, select the new plane from the list of available aircraft, which would include all aircraft capable of flying the schedule, not just aircraft of the same type, select the desired aircraft to move the schedule to, click confirm, and the schedule is updated to reflect the new aircraft type.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: [ATA] Sunbao on June 02, 2015, 10:33:34 PM
Yeah its a pain in the ass to do this manually im sure it also over time getting a lot of players to drop worlds or even the  game. There is so many  not user friendly functions in this game. Mass scrapping being another missing option.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: [SC] - King Kong on August 06, 2015, 09:41:02 AM
bump
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: gazzz0x2z on August 06, 2015, 12:28:06 PM
It's easy to ask, but who will specify? I mean, when you change to a different fleet group with different speed between airports not open 24/7, the algorithm of adapting the schedule is just a nightmare. I've got ERJ145 lines who leave EDDH at 22h55, and land at airports who open at 6. I just cannot switch those lines to EJets. The plane is too quick. I can't leave EDDH later, neither land earlier at the arrival airport. So, what will your automat do in such a case?

I'm sure that if Sami had full specs containing all possible cases, he would do that easily. But he has none. As many cases are unsolvable, some players prefer to shout louder asking for "magic" solving the problems. The real world does not work like that. You want the feature? Specify each annoying case. Then, maybe, it will be done. Or not, I'm not Sami, and I'm not speaking in its name. Still, I've done my share of (successful, well, most of them)computer projects, and I fail to see an easy way to make all this work. It's a hard subject as soon as you have a slight difference in speed, due to airports having closing times(you never tried to plan tech stops in Narsarsuaq? I did, and I gave up).
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Zombie Slayer on August 06, 2015, 07:24:08 PM
Read the feature request. Very simply, keep same departure times after swap and if an airport is closed at the "new" arrival time the swap is rejected with a message. Alternately, the arrival and departure times could be kept the same regardless of speed kind of like what happens now when a new airport opens. It could just check that the turn time is sufficient for the new plane and then apply the schedule.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: [SC] - King Kong on August 06, 2015, 07:59:18 PM
Going from a md88 to a md90 wont make much of a difference. That is where this kind of support will be very usefull.

In the end its my responsibility to make sure all schedules still fit and work out.

Doesn't seem too hard to pick up on short term?
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: CarlBagot on August 06, 2015, 08:28:07 PM
 why could we not have a band of speeds per aircraft,  (most planes have an optimal speed but can go a lil faster or slower without too much penalty)  maybe even have holding times?  Its not like all planes go at their max cruise speeds on all routes and it not like planes have to land as soon as they reach the airport. 

This would help things greatly scheduling wise especially for planes too fast which get there 5 to 30 min before the airport opens.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: gazzz0x2z on August 07, 2015, 06:38:01 AM
why could we not have a band of speeds per aircraft,  (most planes have an optimal speed but can go a lil faster or slower without too much penalty)  maybe even have holding times?  Its not like all planes go at their max cruise speeds on all routes and it not like planes have to land as soon as they reach the airport. 

This would help things greatly scheduling wise especially for planes too fast which get there 5 to 30 min before the airport opens.

This I like. And it would make the original asked feature far more workable. Though I have no clue on the amount of work involved. But it's a thing naturally to do before being able to switch schedules.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: FloF on September 09, 2015, 12:43:23 PM
-1

Lazyness of the megahuge airlines is an opportunity for smaller ones to catch up. Let effort and dedication be a deciding factor for success.

Total bulls***! I totally disagree!

It should be fun playing, especially for those dedicated to the game!

There's no way in making it more and more tedious for larger airlines! It should be difficult and require intelligence to keep your airline running and not time-consuming!!!
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Sami on October 07, 2016, 12:33:53 PM
The automatic schedule converter between fleet types will be soon in test phase.

You can join the test group here: https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=groupmembership

Join the Schedule Testing group.

Details will be posted to public forums when it is available. Testing will happen in current live game worlds (no separate test game for this). Functionality will be limited at first but should work for basic transfers where speeds and turnarounds are rather similar.
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: NovemberCharlie on October 07, 2016, 02:00:24 PM
The automatic schedule converter between fleet types will be soon in test phase.

You can join the test group here: https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=groupmembership

Join the Schedule Testing group.

Details will be posted to public forums when it is available. Testing will happen in current live game worlds (no separate test game for this). Functionality will be limited at first but should work for basic transfers where speeds and turnarounds are rather similar.

No use in joining this if you do not plan to change fleets in live game worlds?
On a side note, could this be tested in the cargo test, in and when this comes online again?

Cheers,

NC
Title: Re: Automatically Convert Schedules to New Aircraft Type
Post by: Sami on October 07, 2016, 02:14:41 PM
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,68205.0.html