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Author Topic: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins  (Read 524 times)

Offline Cornishman

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Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« on: March 01, 2023, 09:36:25 AM »
Quite honestly, I'm just seconds away from ending 10 years of playing this game! The over-zealous rules designed to protect the meek are just getting too much now. There is ZERO clarity on half these tin-pot rules, such as the strict slot limitations on certain airports. You have to purposely dig into the slots table (not something anyone has any natural nor regular need to do), then go looking there to see if the airport has slot purchase limitations.  On slot restricted airports maybe that's OK, but after that airport gets a huge swathe of new slot allocations once it expands - why on earth does this ridiculous "nannying" have to continue? Because of another tin-pot over-protective rule that totally unrealistically penalises an airline if you dare to operate a fairly big fleet with more than 3 aircraft types - because of that rule I had 50 new jets all amassed ready to take over from the former slow old piston-prop airplanes I was using. The easiest way once I prepared myself for the big swap-over, was to simply cancel all 42 prop airplane routes and then spend a good few hours making clean new ones on the jets. (No way to transfer the prop routes onto the jets). But oh no sir! Not allowed sir! This airport still keeps up the over-zealous slot purchase rule despite that I just returned dozens of slots and there is a clear abundance of slots available.

Why am I wasting my time playing AWS? I'm seriously P'd off with this whole game.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 01:12:58 PM by Cornishman »

Offline schlaf

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2023, 10:02:23 AM »
Did you start fleet replacement while one of your airports allowed limited purchases of new slots due to slots restictions?

Offline Cornishman

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2023, 01:10:48 PM »
Yes, ORY was previously somewhat slot restricted at certain times of the day - not all hours. Then it expanded about 6 game-weeks before I started this process and there were  plenty of slots for anyone who wants them at all hours - and still are (not to mention I returned a further 60 to 70 slots I simply can't reuse as they were on slow old DC.4s) - but this infernal restriction remains in place.

Offline schlaf

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2023, 03:05:39 PM »
If you've been playing as long as you claim, you should have learned to find the right time better!

I just swapped 800 767s for A330s with no problems... Took less than 2 hours total...

Offline Sami

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2023, 03:33:36 PM »
I had bit of trouble in finding the actual issue from your message, but if I understood correctly there was an airport that expanded (your base?) and due to that it had a slot purchase limit, and you thought the limit goes away if you release many slots of your own?

The (rare) slot limitation is not that complicated really: The airport expansion slot cap is a single hard-rule applied when airport infra level goes up, and is limited by time only (it appears ALWAYS after airport expansion and goes away ALWAYS at the same time after it), and applicable to all airlines regardless of what they do or how many slots they already control.

=> Rather simple but effective system to combat the actual issue of "slot rush" when airport expands. (There's no need to make these minor features overly complicated in my mind)

Thus I see it as a good mechanism (fine-tuning of the concept is always possible), but if we'd remove that then we are back into the "set alarm at 3am since LHR gets more slots and whoever is fastest is able to grab them all", and that leads to another long set of complaints...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 03:51:26 PM by Sami »

Offline aeronut555

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2023, 05:07:09 PM »
I have faced this problem many times.  You don't have to return all of the old slots, if you are setting routes for 32 new jet aircraft.  Just close the old route BUT KEEP THE SLOTS.  I simply make notes as to the time of the slot and try to use them for the new routes.  Times do not have to exactly match to still use the slot.  Generally, for example a slot at 12:10 p.m. would be usable from 12 noon to 12:59 pm.  Of course, you lose the destination slot, but usually they are so cheap.

Offline Cornishman

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2023, 05:35:26 PM »
If you've been playing as long as you claim, you should have learned to find the right time better!

I just swapped 800 767s for A330s with no problems... Took less than 2 hours total...

Hi mate - I've done that sort of swap-over many times and very successfully. No the issue here was 3-fold: (1) Don't want to invoke the penalty of operating a 4th fleet for more than 1 or 2 game weeks since already profit margins are a bit thin and I'm needing to keep cash-flow for the ongoing purchase of more aircraft I have already ordered. (2) the 60 to 70 slots on the DC.4s are completely useless for a straight swap to a jetliner with about twice the speed. I could have transferred everything 1 by 1 but I have a life to live and the time needed to do that is unworkable to me. Plus (as Aeronut555 suggested) - I could have done a "close route but keep the slots" number on this - and I definitely wish I had done that , but then the neverending unstoppable messages system would have gone into meltdown on the unused "you're about to lose the slot" messages for all the dozens of destination bases (a message for each single day on each lost route is sometimes what we see - that could have been thousands of messages.... on that note:-

@ Sami - one suggestion that would be really helpful - Can we get a button where we select "Close routes and keep ONLY HOME BASE SLOTS, but release all destination base slots". 

... anyway I didn't think I'd need to be selfish and close but keep the slots. - I only now wish I had been more selfish. :,(   Anyway, point (3) another reason that dumping all the DC.4 slots in one go like that helped, It would free up all the hundreds of pilots and cabin crew and all other staff working on the DC.4s, to be free to work on the new Caravelle fleet. Otherwise I would be building up more and more staff with adding Caravelles whilst only one-by one dumping the DC.4.

So there was a method in mind to this - I simply hadn't reckoned on the base having lots and lots of slots available, yet still being under a slot limitation.  I guess I'm cooling off now and accepting the situation better - but boy last night when I'd purposely earmarked a 4 hour period to create all my new route on the Caravelles only to be stopped after just 7 new routes were made - boy was I hopping mad  :laugh:

Offline Cornishman

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2023, 08:24:59 PM »

The (rare) slot limitation is not that complicated really: The airport expansion slot cap is a single hard-rule applied when airport infra level goes up, and is limited by time only (it appears ALWAYS after airport expansion and goes away ALWAYS at the same time after it), and applicable to all airlines regardless of what they do or how many slots they already control.


Thanks for clarifying how this works, I see this evening the slot-lock has been lifted from the airport so perhaps I did this just a day too soon after the airport upgrade. One thing that would be really really good as a modification:

Can we get a button where we select "Close routes and keep ONLY HOME BASE SLOTS, but release all destination base slots".

I could have done a "close route but keep the slots" selection on all 42 DC.4s which would have save my 60 to 70 home base slots . . . but then all the slots at the destination airports also have to be saved which is pointless and on top of that then the never-ending unstoppable messages system would have gone into meltdown on the unused "you're about to lose the slot" repeat messages for all the dozens of destination bases (a message for each single day on each lost route is sometimes what we see - that could have been thousands of messages that also can be avoided.

Offline Zombie Slayer

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2023, 08:29:06 PM »
Thanks for clarifying how this works, I see this evening the slot-lock has been lifted from the airport so perhaps I did this just a day too soon after the airport upgrade. One thing that would be really really good as a modification:

Can we get a button where we select "Close routes and keep ONLY HOME BASE SLOTS, but release all destination base slots".

I could have done a "close route but keep the slots" selection on all 42 DC.4s which would have save my 60 to 70 home base slots . . . but then all the slots at the destination airports also have to be saved which is pointless and on top of that then the never-ending unstoppable messages system would have gone into meltdown on the unused "you're about to lose the slot" repeat messages for all the dozens of destination bases (a message for each single day on each lost route is sometimes what we see - that could have been thousands of messages that also can be avoided.

Re Keep only home base slots.....flown slots are returned if unused after 2 game months anyway, so seems like a lot of effort for something that fixes itself in about 30 real life hours?
Don Collins of Ohio III, by the Grace of God of the SamiMetaverse of HatF and MT and of His other Realms and Game Worlds, King, Head of the Elite Alliance, Defender of the OOB, Protector of the Slots

Offline Cornishman

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2023, 08:52:24 PM »
Re Keep only home base slots.....flown slots are returned if unused after 2 game months anyway, so seems like a lot of effort for something that fixes itself in about 30 real life hours?

I know Don, but does it have to be all that difficult to fix this. I'll bet most folk when doing this only want the home base slots anyway - otherwise if you wanted both then you'd be simply swapping the routes onto a different plane. It's the massive message-attack also that could be avoided.  Just saying - if it's not hard to fix, lets have it?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2023, 10:09:55 PM »
You can turn those messages off, you know. Settings -> Notification settings, "Disable all airport slot expiry notifications"

Although I can see where you would want to know when slots at your base are expiring. Maybe that would be a better solution? "Disable outstation slot expiry notifications" and "Disable base slot expiry notifications"

Offline Cornishman

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2023, 11:31:25 PM »
"Disable outstation slot expiry notifications" and "Disable base slot expiry notifications"

Yup that works - if that's easier to fix for Sami - please can we get this. Good thinking that man!

Offline schro

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2023, 12:21:32 AM »
I prefer to see how many unread notifications I can pile up into my in-game inbox. Usually make it over 20k in a game. Then, I like filing a bug report when the notice thing starts wrapping/corrupting text for being too high of a number. One day, I hope to hit 6 figures.

Offline Cornishman

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2023, 12:32:17 AM »
I prefer to see how many unread notifications I can pile up into my in-game inbox. Usually make it over 20k in a game. Then, I like filing a bug report when the notice thing starts wrapping/corrupting text for being too high of a number. One day, I hope to hit 6 figures.

 :laugh:  OK then, this would be the best way to max out on that achievement  :laugh:

Offline Hillians

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2023, 02:11:59 AM »
The sooner you realise that this game is dying the better.. I've played it for 12 yrs..took a break for 18m came back to this gw and fully realised it's not improved whatsoever.

it's a sad state to admit given the time I've put into this platform to promote alliance via discord/ build a nice network / youtube etc but the lack of development/challenge for the established players has well and truly put a nail into the coffin for this game..

the main positive I've taken from this is the fact I've made some lifelong friends IRL but apart from that I feel that this game has ran its course now..

Hope to be proven wrong...

Offline Sami

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2023, 07:45:24 AM »
Thanks for your overwhelming posititivity  ;D

Offline knobbygb

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2023, 10:56:54 AM »
To be fair, I'm in the same position as Hillians.  I've been here at least 12 years, probably a little longer.  I recently took about eight months out due to being bored with no advancements/updates and mostly waiting on City Based Demand being finally rolled out (what's it been now that the cargo version of CBD has been working fine - TWO YEARS?). Anyway, after a month back, I'm already frustrated at all the stuff that hasn't happened and maybe never will while there seems to be a lot of effort going into appeasing every other person who complains that "it's not fair what xxx player did" while creating and forever bickering over all the artificial rules that spring up to protect "less proficient" (being polite) players.

Of course, I'm just one person and I don't expect everything to run as I would like and I know that this isn't a democracy either.  That's fine and how it should be. But, Sami it's only fair that people voice their opinions or else how are you to know if your core, long-term customers are becoming unhappy?  I honestly don't yet thing this game is dead, but it sure feels like it's on life-support at the moment. Sorry to be so blunt.

I have 14 credits left and, as things stand, I won't be buying any more. January 2011 (I just checked) - June 2023.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2023, 11:07:33 AM by knobbygb »

Offline dmoose42

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Re: Rules - rules - rules - rules - ruins
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2023, 01:25:13 PM »
I agree with the sentiment articulated above about the pace of progress and perceived effort. After taking a siesta myself, and reflecting on the nature of the game, I've come to the following conclusions.

1. The game is stable and most of the low hanging fruit that drove progress/enhancements in the 2011-2016 era have been fixed.
2. Progress then used to be a more 'collaborative process' that incorporated player feedback more dynamically. At some point, Sami basically said that there was no need to post in the feature request section because he had built out the master plan of where he wanted AWS to go. The problem has been the lack of transparency in that roadmap and slow progress in terms of achieving those goals.
3. The core player base generally longs for the days where there was more competition - in the current iteration, it feels like nothing you can do can really cause your competitors to BK (Exaggeration I know, but that is the feeling), so you have to be content to effectively just play in your own sandbox. I know for myself, my best AWS memories are games where epic battles were fought (again mostly in the early 2010's) that resulted in feelings of accomplishment, victory, and success (or the opposite if you lost).

There have been a lot of posts about long-term players feeling frustrated and wanting to leave. I have two suggestions to help with this.

1. Transparency in the roadmap and re-engagement of players to help push the game forward.
2. Expanding ability to succeed in a variety of ways (low cost carrier vs full service, hub and spoke vs point to point, ability to invest in infrastructure/other things to improve airline's efficiency)
3. Greater impact of pricing on pax and cargo allocation as right now it's more of a set it and forget it because there's no benefit to lowering prices because total revenue declines. There's really no impact of raising prices because revenue declines. Now there's a range roughly -5% to 10% or so where tweaking prices can have a marginal benefit. And certainly if routes are way undersupplied, you can hike prices way up. But what I'm talking about is being able to charge 20% less on my 747 to get them full because a full 747 could have better economics than say a tri-star. If both are carrying 200 pax, the tri-star wins, but what if the the 747 is able to charge less and actually be more profitable because of the economics of having a larger plane. I know why the sensitivity to prices is so diminished. Because if PAX are highly sensitive to price, then it's significantly easier for larger airlines to eliminate smaller airlines because flying routes below cost. But I think that is a solvable problem and there is a balance to be had. Anyway I could go on.

Sami, I think there are a lot of people willing to help move AWS forward - just let us know what we can do to help!


 

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