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Author Topic: HatF, Connie production slots off?  (Read 428 times)

Offline Continental Sky

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HatF, Connie production slots off?
« on: August 19, 2022, 04:16:32 PM »
In History and the Future, there are currently three Connies in design phase, 1049C, 1049E and 1049G. Aircraft page says deliveries start in April 1953., November 1953, and April 1954, respectively.

However, in production slots page, these types are nowhere to be found around these dates. I checked 7 airlines that are listed in largest order section, and their first deliveries of these three types start in 1956., late 1957 and 1958 - 3 to 4 years later than advertised!

Why is that? Was Connie a 777X of 1950's?

For some other aircraft in design phase, I don't see that issue, first occupied slots for DC-7, IL-14 or Caravelle are in line with aircraft page.

This might not be a programming bug itself, maybe AI worked as designed; but then it's certainly a design bug IMHO.

I ordered ten 1049G, just because I happened to be around when it launched - I did not plan to purchase it, but getting new planes in only two years time was lucrative moment, so I did it. I am sure I was the first one to order it, my order appeared on the top of 'Aircraft News' page before others. And then I received allocation telling me that my planes will be 4 years late to what is advertised (and it still stands there); and if I want to cancel the order, because I don't want these planes in 1958. and 1959., I wanted them in 1954. or 1955. as promised, I will lose 60% of my downpayment?! It makes no sense to me. In real world it would be classified as scam.

Offline selvala

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Re: HatF, Connie production slots off?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2022, 03:09:18 AM »
the first deliveries aren't until then because all the production slots for the aircraft type are occupied until then.

Offline Continental Sky

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Re: HatF, Connie production slots off?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2022, 03:26:56 PM »
Yes, I see, and that is the issue - aircraft info page is wrong.

For example, 1049C page says that deliveries start in April 1953; it's June 1953. now, and still none of them is in service:





This is one issue; the other, even bigger, issue is cancellation policy - manufacturer delays delivery for 4 years compared to what was announced, and yet I have to lose 60% of downpayment if I want to cancel the order, really?!

Offline Continental Sky

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Re: HatF, Connie production slots off?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2022, 04:18:45 AM »
So, it's the same - aircraft page for all 3 models claims aircraft is in production, yet none still has been delivered as of June 1954...  ::)





Offline Todorojoz

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Re: HatF, Connie production slots off?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2022, 02:37:28 PM »
The aircraft can begin production on the date listed, but due to slots not available, they are delayed. I honestly see no issue with this. If someone cancels their orders a new airline on in the production queue could order them earlier than current order for them exist.

I think you're hung up too much on if they start production at a certain date, then they should be getting built then. Really, production starting more means that it's no longer in testing and certification. Still need slots to be able to produce them.

Offline Continental Sky

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Re: HatF, Connie production slots off?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2022, 01:27:05 PM »
I'm not willing to agree to that. While you are probably right about game mechanics, i.e., why deliveries are delayed, I did not complain specifically about it, I complained about deceiving aircraft description, kind of "small print" in nowadays equivalent.

Aircraft page at the time of announcement does not say kind of "Estimated deliveries as of [date here], depending on free slots", so one is aware of possible miss-estimation; it clearly says "First deliveries", so you expect deliveries to start on designated date. Yes, serious delays do occur in real world, but then kicks in the next bug, cancellation policy - delivery is delayed more than 4 years to what was announced, and I cannot cancel it without losing 60% of funds. If I change my mind about the order, ok, I cancel the order accepting the loss; but if "manufacturer" gets in trouble, it's me again who needs to take a loss, really?!

The bug I highlighted in my second post was that delivery date, let it be "estimated delivery date", whatever, is not updated with the pass of time - it is now January 1956, and aircraft page for L1049C says "First deliveries: April 1953". English is obviously not my native language, but I fail to see any other meaning of that message except that first aircraft was delivered to airlines almost 3 years ago - but it's not the case, none has been produced so far! The same goes for other three variants, D, E and G, first delivery is indicated far into the past while no aircraft has been produced, let alone delivered.

Coupled, these two issues tell me that models are not synchronized - looks like a model has built-in time between announcement and first delivery, say 2 or 3 years or whatever, and it is shown in aircraft page; but it does not take into account backlog of previous models. IMHO, it should check the backlog at the time of announcement, and adjust "First delivery" time accordingly, and also keep it updated as the time passes by.

Offline ArcherII

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Re: HatF, Connie production slots off?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2022, 08:18:10 PM »
What if an airline goes BK and releases production slots tha enable to meet that delivery date? At the end of the day, you have to look at the backlog instead of the delivery date.

Also, those dates work for conversions too if applicable. Just like the factory built A300-600RF. When the aicraft is released, airlines that wish to convert their 600Rs into freighters, will be able from that date on. 

Offline Mort

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Re: HatF, Connie production slots off?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2022, 08:27:18 AM »
Coupled, these two issues tell me that models are not synchronized - looks like a model has built-in time between announcement and first delivery, say 2 or 3 years or whatever, and it is shown in aircraft page; but it does not take into account backlog of previous models. IMHO, it should check the backlog at the time of announcement, and adjust "First delivery" time accordingly, and also keep it updated as the time passes by.

Which would be a new feature request, not a bug being honest.

The launch dates and therefore delivery dates are randomized at game start so that no two GWs are the same, they aren't then to my knowledge ever adjusted again during a GW, therefore would seem to be working as expected.

Offline Continental Sky

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Re: HatF, Connie production slots off?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2022, 11:31:56 AM »
Which would be a new feature request, not a bug being honest.

The launch dates and therefore delivery dates are randomized at game start so that no two GWs are the same, they aren't then to my knowledge ever adjusted again during a GW, therefore would seem to be working as expected.

I have to disagree; I don't know if it's for my English or what, but it seems to me all who replied missed my point.

I understand there is difference between GWs, aircraft don't get launched at the same time, etc. - I did not complain about it at all.

This is my issue:

- In January 1953. you see an announcement "Constellation 1049G is launched..., etc., first deliveries expected in April 1954".
- Two game months later, announcement "Orders allocated..., etc.".
- Aircraft page changes to "First deliveries April 1954" (therefore, not "First deliveries expected April 1954", but "First deliveries April 1954" - definite statement! And it still stands there.)
- Then you look at production slots and order page, and you see that actual deliveries start in June 1958, more than 4 years later than announced and stated on aircraft page!

So, my complaint has nothing to do with other game worlds; it is issue alone within this GW, huge disagreement between announcement and aircraft page on one side and actual deliveries on the other side.

It's over now, obviously, it's almost 1961. now in HatF, but since you reminded me of this issue, I'm still fuming about it, as it ruined my strategy in that GW - as I wrote before, I needed those planes in 1954. and 1955. as promised in announcement, I did not need them in 1958. and 1959!

Offline ArcherII

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Re: HatF, Connie production slots off?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2022, 01:10:03 PM »
Again, that "first deliveries" statement is sort of hard coded for each game world. What that means is that no such aircraft model would be delivered prior to that date.

So to your example of a delay of 4 years between the First Deliveries statement and the actual delivery dates, it means that IF an airline that owned a number of delivery slots for the same fleet group goes BK (thus releasing said slots), those slots could be occupied with the new model, down to the First Delivery Date hard coded in the game. Whereas if the First Delivery Date was set according to how the order backlog was at the specific moment the model was launched (ie, 1958), then it would not allow for delivery flexibility due to the variances in backlog over time.

 

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