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Author Topic: [ok] Catchment area does not grow  (Read 73 times)

Offline JumboShrimp

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[ok] Catchment area does not grow
« on: November 21, 2020, 06:33:14 PM »
Catchment radius at traffic level 1 is 50km
When traffic goes to level 2, radius stays at 50, it does not grow
From level 2 -> 3 it goes to 53, gain of only 3,

From level 3 to 10, there are increases of + ~16km per traffic level

The last, level 10 is 163 km, rather than 200km which is what manual said

This issue makes it next to impossible to grow small airport into a bigger airport, if the first real gain happens at Level 4
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 11:09:01 PM by Sami »

Offline Sami

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Re: Catchment area does not grow
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2020, 06:37:17 PM »
Radius depends on both traffic (75% effect) and infra (25% effect) size classes, as explained in the manual. A 10/10 combination is needed to get to the max 200 km.

The minimum radius in all cases is always at least 50 km to preserve realistic demand, hence at the very lower levels (1/1 -> 1/2) might not see actual growth of the radius.

But for example in cases just above the very minimum (1/1) the radius will start to grow. For example an airport with size 2/2 has a radius of 50 km (actually 42 km, but rounded up) and growth to 3/2 (infra 3, traffic 2) will yield 58 km radius. Or a growth to 3/3 means 63 km radius.

And in the case of airport infra level growth, the radius won't change immediately to the new level, but it is instead a gradual growth with max 10 to 25 km per each calculation cycle of this item (4 times per month), depending on how far the game has progressed.

==> Not a bug.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 06:43:31 PM by Sami »

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Catchment area does not grow
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2020, 06:39:58 PM »
Radius depends on both traffic (75% effect) and infra (25% effect) size classes, as explained in the manual.

A 10/10 combination is needed to get to the max 200 km.

The minimum radius in all cases is always at least 50 km to preserve realistic demand, hence at the very lower levels (1/1 -> 1/2) might not see actual growth of the radius.

It used to work that way, but not any more.

The infrastructure component of the catchment area growth disappeared.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: [-] Catchment area does not grow
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2020, 07:00:40 PM »
Example, from MT:

BKK 5/9 147 km
IST 6/9 147 km

As I said above, this used to work, infrastructure was additive to the catchment area growth, but it stopped working, and now infrastructure does not contribute.  200km is never reached, most likely because of it

Offline Sami

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Re: [-] Catchment area does not grow
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2020, 11:09:48 PM »
BKK 5/9 147 km
IST 6/9 147 km

I see neither has recently expanded so that was not the cause. But I think I figured out why the figures were not saving properly, let's see if it changes now.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: [-] Catchment area does not grow
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2020, 11:33:52 PM »
I see neither has recently expanded so that was not the cause. But I think I figured out why the figures were not saving properly, let's see if it changes now.

Copying from discord:

All traffic level 10 airports have 163 km radius, regardless of infrastructure level.

That is exactly the part that is missing.
Infrastructure component
150 * 1/4 = 37.5

Our current max is 163, which is 37 short.

So then, 1/1 airport would have the minimum 50km radius

Each infrastructure level would add 37.5 / 9 = 4.166 km

Each traffic level would add 112.5 / 9 = 12.5 km to the radius

Offline tungstennedge

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Re: [ok] Catchment area does not grow
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2020, 11:56:03 PM »
LHR in AG world is 10/10, has been for a while, and it has actually grown to 188km catchment. Waiting to see if when it hits 200km, and if it actually catches any new squares.

One thing that should be looked at is the algorithm should consider partial square capture, as they way it is now, if airports manage to catch certain squares there is a huge jump in demand, but if it misses the square capture by even a few KM the airport is entirely unviable. Also, this means certain airports, like Frankfurt main capture care more squares than airports in less fortunate places. For example, LHR catches 14 squares at 188km, and Frankfurt, also 188KM captures 16 squares. This kinda makes it very hard to predict the maximum potential of an airport. For example, my guess is that if it were possible to get the airport Coventry in the UK to 10/10, it would capture 16+ squares just like Frankfurt and catch over 50M population from one airport, but its impossible to know for sure without trying which would be too much work to find out the true potential.

Anyways, currently these issues are very niche and only effect a few players who actually play cargo, but should definitely be looked at. Another possibility would be to increase the resolution. I actually know a few databases which provide population data with resolution of 30 arc seconds- roughly 1km squares which could be useful for making the demand capture more gradual and less sudden with the sudden inclusion of new important squares.

Anyways, in my experience at least catchments do grow gradually, just gotta be patient.

Offline Sami

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Re: [ok] Catchment area does not grow
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2020, 12:47:35 AM »
One thing that should be looked at is the algorithm should consider partial square capture

The airport ring does not need to overlap the square entirely in order to catch it. The capture depends on the distance to the square (and airport size too if I remember correctly) and the more it overlaps the square the more likely it is captured. But after that the square itself is marked either entirely captured or not. (There are no plans to change / update this at the time being since it's not relevant in the bigger scope of things.)

 

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