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Author Topic: Production line artificially capped  (Read 2674 times)

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #80 on: November 23, 2020, 09:14:20 PM »
but in 1950s 25 DC-6s per month is already a good result.

25 would be a dream at this point.  We don't have 25.  We have:

17 DC-6
15 DC-7
15 Britannia
19 Connie

Which is about 60 per month for 360 players, or 1 aircraft per airline per 6 months.

Offline sanabas

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #81 on: November 23, 2020, 10:00:44 PM »
One very temporary solution to the DC 6 crazy lack of availability, is the DC 4 very  slow, but carries lots of pax with decent range..they have been easier to come by then the  6. I have some to get me bye till things get calmer

I just ordered 50 Breguets, first arrives in 3 months, 50th arrives in 3 years. Sooner if orders get compressed at any point.

Offline [ATA] Lord Branson

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2020, 02:01:01 AM »
25 would be a dream at this point.  We don't have 25.  We have:

17 DC-6
15 DC-7
15 Britannia
19 Connie

Which is about 60 per month for 360 players, or 1 aircraft per airline per 6 months.

This all points to Sami slowing the game down to give airlines surplus cash and keep them in the game longer.  Still in a few years it will even itself out I am sure.  However at present it is pretty quiet.  1957 will be lively.

Offline AngryOpossum

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2020, 02:04:01 AM »
This all points to Sami slowing the game down to give airlines surplus cash and keep them in the game longer.  Still in a few years it will even itself out I am sure.  However at present it is pretty quiet.  1957 will be lively.

Surplus cash? I'm having to chug it all back into plane deposits if I want to keep up with rapidly closing production slots...

Offline Todorojoz

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2020, 02:13:45 AM »
Surplus cash? I'm having to chug it all back into plane deposits if I want to keep up with rapidly closing production slots...

Yeah, and thats alot more risky, and if its a lease payment, you can't get it back if things go sideways.

Offline Todorojoz

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2020, 02:16:02 AM »
This all points to Sami slowing the game down to give airlines surplus cash and keep them in the game longer.  Still in a few years it will even itself out I am sure.  However at present it is pretty quiet.  1957 will be lively.

1956 should be lively. Things are still new. Right now it is very difficult for a new airline to start up. Its tough for most to grow at all. So you take the wind out of peoples sails and set others up to BK and be unable to jump back in productively. So we end up back at the typical 200-250 airlines that other Epic GWs get.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2020, 07:58:26 AM »
It would have helped DC-4 the production line was still open.  It would mean more options.  But starting with the production line closed makes them far less viable.

Same for 377 production line.
Martin line could have been open....

In DC-6 line original DC-6 and 6A could also have been left in production
I do agree 100% with this. B377s are inferior airplanes, but being able to use inferior airplanes is heavily needed. Most production lines should be open at game start, even wayfarers.

Offline MuzhikRB

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #87 on: November 24, 2020, 11:00:08 AM »
we were talking about it every epic GW starts

the best way will be to have ALL production lines open - then it may be closed by usual - no orders - procedure.

lets the open market decide which plane is viable

Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #88 on: November 25, 2020, 03:09:33 PM »
Here is how excited Bristol was about 55 Britannia orders in their advertisement in "Aeroplane" on August 24 1956.

Online Jack Ruskin

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #89 on: November 29, 2020, 01:44:09 PM »
With the lack of aircraft in the used with a range above 800nm, makes this gw pretty pointless for new players - at least for the first month

Online Andre090904

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #90 on: November 29, 2020, 01:46:42 PM »
You can always fly short haul or tech-stop planes.

EDIT: Saw you aren't playing HatF, so I don't think you are "insider enough" to see how it is. There are still useful planes on UM (think of Martins for example). People are upgrading their fleets already and planes will become available again (e.g Convairs). As for planes with range (any "large" planes), those are scarce. But even then you could order Tu104 or something less popular and get those fairly quickly.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 01:48:44 PM by Andre090904 »

Online Jack Ruskin

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2020, 06:01:44 PM »
You can always fly short haul or tech-stop planes.

EDIT: Saw you aren't playing HatF, so I don't think you are "insider enough" to see how it is. There are still useful planes on UM (think of Martins for example). People are upgrading their fleets already and planes will become available again (e.g Convairs). As for planes with range (any "large" planes), those are scarce. But even then you could order Tu104 or something less popular and get those fairly quickly.


I was playing this game world,  which is why I felt 'insider enough'  to comment, otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered.   
I BK'd my airline in this game world due to the lack of used aircraft with a range above 800nm, which meant development and growth was very limited.  I'll restart when the markets open up, maybe.

In this game, it is sometimes not really worth operating tech stop flights against competitors operating direct flights,  it might not loose you money, but it generally isn't enough profit to make decent invesments!

Online Andre090904

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #92 on: November 29, 2020, 06:46:19 PM »
All what you just said is why HatF is appealing to me. Slow start. Then again, not really that slow given I will reach OOB limits soon. It's all about tactics and patience, more so in an early start.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #93 on: November 30, 2020, 11:37:35 AM »
I begin to have enough comets to play with. Not the best planes available...but available.

I still think it would be better if more production lines were open ... but ... expecting the UM to fill all your needs seems unrealistic to me. Managing the scarcity is part of the process. Once the TU-114, IL18, 707, and others will arrive, the game will be very dynamic. Havine a position then will be a huge strategic advantage. A fresh start, even thoug BKs and replacements will fill the UM, won't be that easy, against well-entranched competitors.

Offline ChuckPerry

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #94 on: November 30, 2020, 04:28:24 PM »
I begin to have enough comets to play with. Not the best planes available...but available.

I still think it would be better if more production lines were open ... but ... expecting the UM to fill all your needs seems unrealistic to me. Managing the scarcity is part of the process. Once the TU-114, IL18, 707, and others will arrive, the game will be very dynamic. Havine a position then will be a huge strategic advantage. A fresh start, even thoug BKs and replacements will fill the UM, won't be that easy, against well-entranched competitors.

I agree- I think this is a interesting twist on this GW to more realistically limit the production rate.. I'm all for making these GW's more realistic.. Now if we could just find a way around all this out - and - back only flying from our bases.. The airlines didn't create hub and spoke flying until after deregulation...

Offline tungstennedge

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2020, 11:11:41 AM »
At what point does "realism" become detrimental to the actual game? Players who didn't get early plane orders in are now looking at 1961 for almost any large aircraft type. Thats over 5  real life weeks of being able to almost nothing- not fun. Maybe it's realistic, but even so, the numbers are unrealistically low, in comparison to demand.

It would make sense if production rates were as low as they are if demand was too, but instead, there is good pax demand that cannot be filled whatsoever thanks to low production rates. If aircraft/pax demand was this great in the 60's IRL Im sure the major aircraft manufactures, with order backlogs of thousands would find a way to ramp up production if they had the demand back in the day.

Anyways, I'm gonna sit patiently and wait for my aircraft to arrive, but I'm guessing there are also going to be many airlines bored like me waiting for aircraft.

Offline sanabas

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2020, 12:04:32 PM »
I think if everybody could get their planes of choice quickly, right now, so we were seeing 100+ connies/DC6/Bristols churned out a month, there'd be less people impatient and/or bored now, but then in 6 real life weeks with the demand now filled, they'd be bored then. And it is a GW that will last over 18 RL months, there will be stretches of boredom and/or impatience.

The only difficulty is that it's harder to start an airline right now, so if you do make mistakes and want to restart, you might get especially frustrated, it'll be easier in 4-6 RL weeks with a lot more planes available, less demand from the UM for older planes, and older planes returned to the brokers because they've been replaced or people have BKed. But it's like that in every longer world, ~2 years/2 RL weeks in is always the hardest time to get started, because all the big, aggressive airlines are still grabbing anything they can from the UM, and have not ramped up enough to have steady supply of new planes, nor to start returning their older planes.

Could go back to the staggered starts again, limit the number of people allowed to join on day one, but pretty sure that didn't work at all, leads to more frustration because if you can't get in on day one, more likely to not play. In 2 RL months starting up in the world will be easy, outside of the usual ~10 airports without slots, and still allow 18+ months, 70+ game years of building a huge airline. Right now, if you intend to have big airline and haven't gone the generic grab heaps of DC6/connies and start ordering them new path, you're stuck with being patient and/or getting creative. That'll always be the case at this point of a new world, I think. Even if it is alleviated somewhat by forcing more lines (DC4, Martin, etc in this world) to start open, and forcing more bigger options onto the UM (Breguets and first DC7 option in this game) at game start.

Offline saetta

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #97 on: December 03, 2020, 05:02:19 PM »
I think it would be a bit more fun, if the early part of the game would be at 25 min per day as opposed to the current 30 , like it has in the past.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #98 on: December 16, 2020, 09:52:40 AM »
At what point does "realism" become detrimental to the actual game? Players who didn't get early plane orders in are now looking at 1961 for almost any large aircraft type. Thats over 5  real life weeks of being able to almost nothing- not fun. Maybe it's realistic, but even so, the numbers are unrealistically low, in comparison to demand.

Totally.

And if you did spend a month refreshing UM, you would probably have no slots to fly the aircraft anyway.  I guess I am going to be looking at this for a decade.  Then one day of hyper-activity and than another decade of the same.

And if you just happen to have something happening in your life when the once in a decade slots become available, than you wait 2 decades.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2020, 09:54:41 AM by JumboShrimp »

Offline Jake S

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Re: Production line artificially capped
« Reply #99 on: December 16, 2020, 04:44:53 PM »
And if you just happen to have something happening in your life when the once in a decade slots become available, than you wait 2 decades.
The life of an airline at the biggest airports, could always start over in a place where there's no one ;)

"People who invest in aviation are the biggest suckers in the world."

 

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