AirwaySim
Online Airline Management Simulation
Login
Username
Password
 
or login using:
 
My Account
Username:
E-mail:
Edit account
» Achievements
» Logout
Game Credits
Credit balance: 0 Cr
Buy credits
» Credit history
» Credits FAQ

Author Topic: [-] Dump plane with AI broker  (Read 1006 times)

Offline DanDan

  • Members
  • Posts: 2757

The 3 people who like this post:
Re: Dump plane with AI broker
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2020, 09:43:47 AM »
@Sami: Sorry, this is not just annoying anymore, but idiotic. Aircraft trading is basically impossible except for A320 family aircraft. Let us just scrap aircraft if you dont like us to sell them.

Offline gazzz0x2z

  • Members
  • Posts: 4337

The 2 people who like this post:
Re: Dump plane with AI broker
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2020, 10:38:10 AM »
I agree 100% with DanDan. Companies in though time would have done a great use of my old 737s. I'm just scrapping them at age 16 because at alliance minimum, they don't sell or lease.

Once again, if you use the old system - but by extending the "alliance limits" to private listed airplanes (to avoid the "I played 15 games in Elite but I'm not Elite this time" Syndrome), you solve 99% of exploits. If I agree to purchase CRJs to a company an this company private lists them to me, then I can't purchase outside alliance range. Even though the broker is not within my alliance. This prevents subsidized powerstart for late newcomers outside the alliance. But if the broker does not have any customer, then (s)he can sell at low price - to anyone. To get rid of old crap, and to help late starting players - or players who need some cheap old crap that flies now.

Offline ArcherII

  • Members
  • Posts: 2137
Re: Dump plane with AI broker
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2020, 01:27:32 PM »
GW2 does not have a single 737NG or an A320ceo in the UM. Unheard of.

Offline gazzz0x2z

  • Members
  • Posts: 4337
Re: Dump plane with AI broker
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2020, 08:02:01 PM »
GW2 does not have a single 737NG or an A320ceo in the UM. Unheard of.

I indeed scrapped 14* 737-700. They were not going, and I had money problems. I'd have sold them at scrap price. I did need the cash. Others I could sell, but not the last ones.

Offline ArcherII

  • Members
  • Posts: 2137
Re: Dump plane with AI broker
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2020, 08:09:58 PM »
And by unavailability of NGs and A320s, I mean younger than 10 years. They are still being produced...

Online Chris Spiegel

  • Members
  • Posts: 32
Re: Dump plane with AI broker
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2020, 01:33:52 PM »
I personally don't like this idea. AI brokers already purchase planes randomly just like a player could buy a plane.
The guaranteed "buy model" exists with scrapping already.

I'd rather re-work the min / max pricing model to an offer vs. demand model. Let me make an example.
Let's say a new plane A that has never been sold before has a list price of $ 100 million. Then the min / max could be defined as - / + 20% of the list price, i.e. $ 80 to $ 120 million. (AI brokers would randomly choose prices in that range or based on age, techn. condition etc.)

After planes are sold, the average selling price of that plane could be the new base. Let's say nobody wants that model and it's sold for only $ 80 to $ 90 million on average. Let's keep the example simple and say 3 planes were sold for $ 80, $ 85, $ 90 million, then the average selling price and the new "base" for min / max prices would be $ 85 million.
Thus the new allowed price range would be $ 68 to $ 102 million (- / + 20% of $ 90 million).

This would allow a real economy to unfold based on offer and demand and there would be no necessity anymore to differentiate between alliance and non-alliance min / max prices.
Risk is that with models only 1-2 players fly (e.g. I fly the Mercure in AoF no one wants) a very small amount of players could drive prices up or down. To prevent that the average price of a plane to define min / max prizes could only be recalculated after at least e.g. 10 airlines have bought that plane.

Inflation mechanisms can just stay in place.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 01:35:57 PM by Chris Spiegel »

Offline stealy

  • Members
  • Posts: 162

The person who likes this post:
Re: Dump plane with AI broker
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2020, 05:00:28 PM »
this is just ridiculous... i am selling at min price, but how can i compete with AI brokers!? i just want to get rid of some trash!  :-[ :laugh:

...feel like an 11 year old aircraft for double the price of an 8 year old one? anyone? anyone? anyone?

My situation is nowhere near as extreme, but just as annoying. There are a bunch of E195AR sold by AI brokers who acquired them from an airline that went bankrupt more than a year ago. Before these AI brokers decided to drop 30 planes on the used market for below minimum price (like $18 or $19 million when the minimum is $22 million) at once, I was selling my E195AR for market value of $45-50 million easily in no time. Afterwards, I haven't sold a single one in over a year, even at minimum price, because AI brokers are somehow allowed to undercut real players. And they keep on dropping more when they sell some. By the time they are done selling their current stock (so... years), they would have acquired more from bankruptcies, meaning this problem would NEVER end once it begins. Who in their right mind would pay more to buy an older plane from real players (who aren't allowed to compete on price) when there are dozens of cheaper and younger planes sold by AI brokers??? This is the same reason why I scrapped all of my relatively young F28, A319-100, and 767. Luckily, I don't need the money, but it makes me feel bad for scrapping 12-year-old and perfectly fine planes.

I feel like there are two simple ways to fix this. Either (1) allow players to lower their prices to below minimum after, for instance, not selling on the UM for one or two years, OR (2) stop AI brokers from undercutting real players by selling below minimum price.

This current issue also discourages players from leasing out planes they don't plan to use because they are uncertain if they will be able to sell the planes 10 years later when they all return from leases. I know this isn't a huge issue for most players, but the UM (a vital part of the game) is not functioning as well as it could under current circumstances.

Offline tomwe

  • Members
  • Posts: 6
Re: Dump plane with AI broker
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2020, 08:47:21 PM »
I am in agreement with most of the posts on here. Something needs to be done about the UM. I’ve got tons of YS-11s that I don’t want. I can’t scrap them because they’re way under 10 years old.
I paid ~7m for each one new, but can’t list one for less than 8.3m. Used brokers have plenty of newer aircraft on sale for <5m.

I think the game should simply permit players to scrap aircraft of any age.

Offline sanabas

  • Members
  • Posts: 551
Re: Dump plane with AI broker
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2020, 11:38:56 PM »
Problem is an unintended, but foreseeable, side-effect of the minimum pricing being changed due to regular cheating.

That flavour of cheating relies on co-ordinating between buyer & seller, so buyer knows exactly when to refresh the market and grab the publicly listed plane.

Simple solution, which I put in a different thread somewhere, is to stop publicly listed planes appearing immediately. If you list a plane publicly, if you swap a plane's listing from private to public, if you adjust the price an a public listing, then in each case the plane should then not be viewable/should disappear from market, should randomly show up in any of the next ~5 UM restockings/next 24 hours of real time.

That way the minimum prices for public listings can be restored, so players can compete with/undercut brokers on pricing of unpopular models and actually sell some planes. Private listing price restrictions can stay as they are, and people can no longer get around alliance/private price restrictions by colluding about listing times.

If you want to sell your plane to a specific person, that's fine, abide by the strict restrictions on pricing. If you just want to sell it for less than the brokers are, that's fine, you'll have a wait of up to 24 hours and can't control who buys it. If you want to sell your planes even cheaper than the cheap broker price to a specific person, then stop trying to cheat. Easy.

And I think it'd be relatively simple to implement technically.

Offline schlaf

  • Members
  • Posts: 613
Re: Dump plane with AI broker
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2020, 07:08:32 PM »
i am selling at min price, but how can i compete with AI brokers!? i just want to get rid of some trash!  :-[ :laugh:

You are much nicer than most of the AI brokers! I would buy from you every time :)

 

WARNING! This website is not compatible with the old version of Internet Explorer you are using.

If you are using the latest version please turn OFF the compatibility mode.