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Author Topic: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?  (Read 227 times)

Offline DamonReynolds1997

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a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« on: January 05, 2020, 04:35:19 PM »
Hello all,

I have about 20 different possible routes that are between 3000nm and 4500nm with a 140 passenger demand.
I am considering trialing the a319 neo with the longest range possible, Doing a 108 standard economy and 15 standard business.
According to the range chart, the a319 neo should fly around 4250 with this configuration.

Has anyone tried this? Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2020, 05:41:36 PM »
Bad idea.

1st, you won't be able to fly so far, as there is ESAD to take into account (~ -10% range).
Then, there is profitability of such flights. The A319 is a small A320, thus not optimized and with proportionally higher costs. In the end, you'll lose money. Maybe not with the easy settings of a BW, but in a regular GW, definitely.
And finally, this is not the kind of plane you want to use for LH. Thin LH? 767 or 787. Medium to large? 787, 777, A350.

If you really want to fly short LH with a NB, it's possible, but it needs to be a marginal part of your NBs ops and be done with the largest possible plane. A MAX9 or 321 neo filled to the brim will indeed be a money-maker, but not the A319.

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2020, 08:33:26 PM »
A 747SP might do the job.

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2020, 08:40:27 PM »

Offline tungstennedge

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Re: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2020, 08:10:36 AM »
has anyone tried A321 neo XLR I feel like it could do these routes, never tried tho.

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2020, 08:24:49 AM »
Nope, as I never played a GW it was in, though it's my plan for current GW#4 (HaF). Not in the best location for it, but anyway.
However my experience with MAX 9 flying max range filled to the brim are that yes, it is profitable, and quite a bit. How strong they are against competition is another matter, though.

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2020, 04:36:15 PM »
Nope, as I never played a GW it was in, though it's my plan for current GW#4 (HaF). Not in the best location for it, but anyway.
However my experience with MAX 9 flying max range filled to the brim are that yes, it is profitable, and quite a bit. How strong they are against competition is another matter, though.

But a competitor flying the same? Or flying a widebody thats slightly over capacity of that route? I won't bet 787/330/whatever against a smaller plane if I can then grab max 60% of the available demand (which means I won't be flying more than 60% of my capacity on that big bird.)

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2020, 09:32:29 PM »
No, no competition. Or at least on 90% of the routes.
It was from OVB, central Siberia, the place where no one thinks to fly to ;D
And it was before ESAD, on the verge of their previous range. Right now, NBs would be suffering / would be forced to fly shorter routes, due to only 75-80% LF capacity on one of the legs.
However, the routes were without competition also because it was late in the game (2020), and real thin LH birds (762ER) were not that common.
Demand was usually around 190, range 2900-3200nm.

Offline knobbygb

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Re: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2020, 09:23:52 AM »
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the "aircraft too small" penalty.  It probably wouldn't have a huge effect on the uncontested routes the OP discussed, but the the example above - 787/A330 vs 739 on a 3000nm route, I imagine the 737 would be hit REALLY hard.

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2020, 09:43:26 AM »
As I clarified it in my last post, it was on ~190 demand routes -> no penalty (at least for the MAX 9 or 10). But with more demand, yeah, obviously.

Edit: but you're right, so let's correct that :)

@OP

The "too small" penalty is a penalty kicking in when you use a plane that can fly a route, but is not designed for said route.
For example, a 757-200 on LHR-JFK.
The 757 can do it, but it's a low capacity NB made for thin routes, while LHR-JFK is a very-high demand route meant for larger birds (773, A333, etc.). Using the 757 on such a route would theoretically ensure a very high LF as a part of the repartition between planes on a route is purely based on a simple division. And by doing so, you're ripping the larger birds which are the ones designed for such a route. To prevent such an exploit, the "too small" penalty was introduced.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 09:52:26 AM by Tha_Ape »

Online DanDan

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Re: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2020, 12:45:02 PM »
i was flying the 737-700ER from panama transatlantic (/before ESAD!)

so i had about 120 seats for 100 to 150 pax-demand usually. with ranges of 4500-4900nm.
the routes had good results, especially when not payload limited (so rather the shorter ones).
i assume the results are appx comparable to the A319/neo.

problems come quickly when you think: the route will grow and my loadfactors/prices will rise. wrong: you soon start getting the "too small" warning (without really getting it, you just find out when the LF drops). the good thing about it was, that competition in that segment was really limited; probably not so much anymore since the arrival of the LR/XLR now. in 2010 it was a good money, but by 2030 it was just eyecandy/keeping away the competition. in any case: i wouldnt found an airline with just that as a business plan - money is in shorthaul.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: a319neo for long haul. Has anyone tried this?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2020, 03:07:04 PM »
I had the same experience than DanDan with 737-700ER from Europe to the East coast. It works for a few years(usually 10-15), then demand hits 200 and you shall set up a very large aircraft instead.

 

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