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Author Topic: Throw a Wrench Into the Mix  (Read 887 times)

Online Tuckernut

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Throw a Wrench Into the Mix
« on: August 15, 2019, 07:15:05 PM »
Sami:

The worldwide grounding of the 737 MAX had me thinking.  What if every once in a while the system would decide to ground a particular fleet type for a few days, a week, a month?  I remember the DC-10 grounding and the difficulty getting people to return to fly on it in the aftermath of the terrible ORD accident.  It seems that the same handful of players repeatedly "win" all the games in AIRWAYSIM.  Might be fun to level the playing field a little bit and watch them scramble as a major fleet gets grounded.  Just an idea to spin around.  The aftermath of the MAX grounding and the loss of so many lives will have a lasting effect on the type.  Would you keep the name MAX or rebrand it as the 737 NOW or something else?  Neo is taken, it appears.

Tuckernut :-\




Offline Andre090904

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Re: Throw a Wrench Into the Mix
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2019, 07:28:02 PM »
That's a total game killer. Just no. At least not in the form of a complete grounding. I could imagine there to be a temporary CI impact, but no grounding. Then again, it could be compensated with higher marketing spending. So in the end it's just senseless.

EDIT: Maybe the "same" players win...because they are simply the best? What hinders you from becoming better? :)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 07:30:43 PM by Andre090904 »

Online Tuckernut

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Re: Throw a Wrench Into the Mix
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2019, 11:36:30 PM »
Nothing hinders me from getting better.  It is a slow learning process.  I think shortening the games has helped.  I saw several players I admired going BK due to issues of time with family or job.  And I agree--a good marketing strategy can help you through a rough patch.  It has not escaped my attention that the really great players company recognition is at or near 100%.

I have days I am brilliant, other days I buy the wrong airplane type or underestimate the competition.  The beginners Games are good for testing new ideas and strategies.  My worst mistake in one game was seriously overbuying the 707-120.  A voracious eater of money.  A real game killer is setting up in a base with extremely high slot costs.  If you are paying nearly $1 million for a 0600 take off slot for a DC-9 or A320 you are in real trouble.

But I am curious.  How do you handle a fleet of 2,000+ aircraft?  That is a full time job.  AI have gone over 200 airframes a couple of times and it was a lot of work. And I admit, I need my sleep so before I knock off for the night I set the screen up to do a few things before morning.  Took a cruise this summer and sat poolside pounding away on my laptop until I had about 6 guys hanging over my shoulder watching the game.  Hope they signed up!  I am a retired flight crew member so I push this game on social media places where I know a lot of my colleagues like to hang.

Peace.

Tuckernut :-\

Online NovemberCharlie

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Re: Throw a Wrench Into the Mix
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2019, 12:00:51 AM »
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,75807.msg444740.html#msg444740

I agree, but it should definitely be rare and random. In the current circumstances with foresight it would just render the MAX dead...

Online Tuckernut

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Re: Throw a Wrench Into the Mix
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2019, 12:53:22 AM »
After 40+ years working at a real world airline I know "stuff happens."  We had 9/11, SARS, PATCO strike, DC-10 grounding, Gulf War that trashed international flying for a while, strikes, executives that embezzle funds, it can go on and on.

I have faith that Boeing will come out of the MAX mess.  It is going to cost them a bundle but most travelers cannot tell one airplane from another.  After the Electra crashes in 1959, Lockheed came up with a fix, renamed the plane Electra II and it went on to have a long and successful career.  Same with the DC-10 and the 727 had numerous crashes as pilots had to learn to fly a T-tail successfully.  This is just a blip on the great aviation timeline.  For years it has been felt that the FAA was too cozy with the airlines they regulated and someone is going to have to answer for this disaster.

Offline knobbygb

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Re: Throw a Wrench Into the Mix
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2019, 07:14:56 AM »
The thing is, you talk about this being a way to reign in the "better" players, but the effect would be opposite in many cases. A well run, profitable airline could weather the storm better than a small airline, just starting out, maybe only using that one fleet type.  Just like in the real world really. I think Air Canada are one of the most impacted airlines by the MAX grounding. Is it going to BK them? Nope. But a small airline running, say, only a fleet of just 10 or 15 MAX would be finished already.

I think this kind of arbitrary event, while more realistic, would just cause uproar among players of all levels. We already have people complaining about too many negative 'events' in their particular country. That's also why we don't have crashes. It's seen as unfair - the real world IS unfair of course, but if I suddenly had my major fleet of 200 to 500 aircraft grounded for weeks or months by a random event, I'd probably just quit the game and start in one of the other ones, to be honest.  There are no tools to temporarily re-assign routes and work around such a grounding - the game mechanics just aren't designed for that. Changing everything around to try to survive would just be a huge waste of time and no fun at all.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Throw a Wrench Into the Mix
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2019, 08:18:35 AM »
+ with knobbybg.

IRL, Malaysian had 2 especially unfair crashes, and would have been dead without the state's support. That's not the game I want to play. When I have enough margin, I can survive such events. When it strikes an opponent whith less margin, he's dead. Where's the fun?I want to win a fair way, not because some randomization.

Online dandan

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Re: Throw a Wrench Into the Mix
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2019, 08:54:58 AM »
imagine you have a sudden grounding of your fleet. since people are limited to 3 fleet groups basically, you cant evade the problem. considering everything goes at such a fast pace, even if you would have capacity, you couldnt move your flights to other aircraft in time. it sure has some impact, but what options do we have? shall we stop a service for a while? including losing slots? ...
i dont know about you, but once a new fleet type is being launched, until it is being delivered, i am quite covered in AWS work, trying to schedule, check slot situations, optimize usage, ... my reaction to any of these events (railway strike, world cup, ..., 9/11) is to just ignore them.

AWS is a simulation. it is not real life. thing is: people have limited time and considering that time goes at 48x speed, it is not really easy to react to sudden events. in real life, a lot of airline-service is seasonal. a lot of airlines have two schedules, one for summer, one for winter (would be a fun feature, but a real pain in the a$$ for casual "simulating"). considering the speed, you possibly were asleep and you missed the first 2 or 3 weeks of the event - so a grounding for a day or a week, sure, alright - but for anything longer, it is really a stretch!

regarding crashes, thats a different story! i do like the idea of airplanes crashing - connected to their technical condition (and maybe to a smaller extent, their age). they shouldnt drop from the air like flies, but a crash here and there, with a 10-CI-penalty would make things a bit spicy!

Offline Karl

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Re: Throw a Wrench Into the Mix
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2019, 02:47:50 PM »
As noted in another thread, I am against grounding of fleets in AWS.  I like the fact that AWS tries to be as realistic as possible; however, the simulation does have its limits.

First, we are individual players - not corporate giants like a real-world airline that have thousands of employees working to fix problems.  Next, experienced players have learned to limit fleet and engine types to as few as possible to achieve their goals.  Grounding an entire fleet could ruin an airline with just that type.  All of the player's many hours of working to build a profitable airline (which is hard enough without random problems) would have been for nothing just because the player chose the "wrong" type.  In the real world, insurance or even the government sometimes covers certain losses.  This option does not seem to be available to AWS players. 

Offline George Bush

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Re: Throw a Wrench Into the Mix
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2019, 12:08:23 AM »
The only way this works is if the commonality penalties were not harsh which would diversify fleets.

 

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