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Author Topic: Any realistic passenger model?  (Read 434 times)

Offline dandan

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Any realistic passenger model?
« on: May 04, 2019, 08:30:22 AM »
Hello Sami (and anyone else who is having some insight into the game development)!

Is there any realistic (i wont use the word "more", since the current system lacks any realism) passenger model planned for the game to be implemented?

Because the current one really is annoying. People just evenly fill up the flights by passenger numbers, with only minimal interest in prices, marketing/company image, comfort, schedules, flight durations. Is this going to change at some point in time in favor of something realistic, or do you plan to keep it this way? And how about for cargo?

Best regards
DanDan
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 08:48:21 AM by dandan »

Offline Mort

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Re: Any realistic passenger model?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2019, 09:47:28 AM »
Oh sure, let's just add in an AI system that completely mimics all humans, should only take an afternoon or two to code..  ::)

Insulting the lack of realism in the game's current form is probably not the best incentive to make a change either!

Offline dandan

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Re: Any realistic passenger model?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2019, 03:56:39 PM »
Oh sure, let's just add in an AI system that completely mimics all humans, should only take an afternoon or two to code..  ::)

Insulting the lack of realism in the game's current form is probably not the best incentive to make a change either!

it is not (meant as) an insult, i was just stating facts. and i am neither saying its easy, nor do i expect it to happen right away. i was just asking if there is a plan to implement a system that makes more sense.
and yes, if you offer flights all day long for 1$ and an equal amount of people still choose your competition, even though your own planes are not filling (and your CI is 100 while they are low, ...), lets say, there is a lot of improvement for realism.

Offline Cornishman

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Re: Any realistic passenger model?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2019, 05:25:59 PM »
I hear you Dani - and yes I hope and trust Sami wouldn't see what you suggest as any insult - if it was then you wouldn't still be here playing the game, right?

But is is an excellent thought to put out there... I love the game and that's why I'm still here... but there are certainly ways we could all suggest to make things better and even more fun. I like your questions and would be interested to see if Sami and his team have any thoughts in that direction for the future.

Offline Sami

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Re: Any realistic passenger model?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2019, 06:21:02 PM »
and yes, if you offer flights all day long for 1$ and an equal amount of people still choose your competition, even though your own planes are not filling (and your CI is 100 while they are low, ...)

That's your personal opinion and not a fact. And I do agee that the tone in your post wasn't very constructive in my mind.

For example on seat quality: For a ~1500nm route in the modern era the flight with a HD seating will get some ~10% less seats sold than same route with STD seats when comparing the two flights (other variables like company image and price data being the same to keep it simple to understand). But that's just one example I had directly here on the laptop (not digging other examples right now as I've been sick for the last days and just netflix & sleep for now :-\)

Think about the whining what would happen when you and a group more experienced and hardcore players would use their endless supply of cash, planes and power just to fly all routes at "$1 prices" to drive out any newcomer they don't like. (Request for more rules and limits would be the answer?) Price, like all other variables, does have an effect on the sales but it is fully and completely intentional that such unrealistic pricewars are not automatically a killer to the competition since that just leads nowhere. Since I've seen a game where basically the price was the only deciding factor and all it was a constant pricewar with admins trying to curb the worst of it.. So, not good. And like mentioned your statement of sales going equally regardless of these variables is just plain wrong, although seems to be the well-repeated myth amongst some players.

And as a response to actual question: All aspects of the simulation are under review and development and in my mind no part of the system is ever fully final nor perfect...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 06:26:03 PM by Sami »

Online Talentz

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Re: Any realistic passenger model?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2019, 09:51:42 PM »
Well... I was waiting for another long term vet to answer. But Sami did.

I'd like to add that AWS is a lot deeper then players seem to understand. Even long term players are still leaning the depths. Not to mention AWS is changing with each new GW. What I knew many years ago is mostly irrelevant to today's AWS. The game's changed that much and continues to do so.

Talentz


Co-founder and Managing member of: The Star Alliance Groupô - A beta era, multi-brand alliance.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Any realistic passenger model?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2019, 07:37:36 AM »
Quote
(.../...) What I knew many years ago is mostly irrelevant to today's AWS. The game's changed that much and continues to do so.

This. The new wind rules are a complete game changer, and my current vietnamese GW2 does not look at all as I had envisioned. And it's fun, I have to think another way.

Price wars can bring down an opponent, but only when the opponent did put himself in a dire position in the first place. Most of price wars I tried failed, and that's a good thing. Putting down an opponent should be extremely hard - and it is. An opponent who schedules cleverly, chooses his fleets cleverly, and prices cleverly is nearly impossible to defeat. Which makes the game playable for more than a handful of players.

My last 2 successful price wars were (1)against an opponent who had chosen a wrong fleet type and could not afford to pay his arriving 707s(in WAW!), and (2) against a player whose pricing strategy was wrong and therefore was not doing the money he should have - plus he had leased brand new A350s. Both were in the game since more than 20 game years, and had put themselves in dire positions. I just hastened their demise because I did need the slots - but the bottom line is that they'd have died anyways, sooner or later. And those price wars, even short, were very costly to me. That's how it should be.

AWS is still hard, and already more players fail than succeed, but more "realism" (i.e. price sensitivity) would decrease even more the number of surviving players. The game is already damn realistic, and deeply interesting. There is a thin line of abstraction beyond which too much realism just isn't fun anymore.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 09:30:32 AM by gazzz0x2z »

Offline Zobelle

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Re: Any realistic passenger model?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2019, 11:44:24 PM »
IRL, price wars nearly killed the US air industry in the late 80ís/early 90ís.

Offline tungstennedge

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Re: Any realistic passenger model?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2019, 01:05:39 PM »
Hmm, I've always wondered why AWS doesn't consider price decrease very much as a factor for determining load factor and samis post above finally makes it makes sence to me, in the current demand model for AWS, it would always result in a price war. I however think that making a more realistic passenger model would make this game the best and about the most realistic possible airline sim.

However, I do think there would be ways to implement such and feature, although I done expect of think it will be implemented I kind of want to share my thoughts.

IRL, lower costs doesn't only sway which airline is chosen, but also the demand itself. For example, Ryanair's extremely low costs make basically anywhere it flies become a tourist destination because it's possible the get there for so cheap. Of course where it goes often does have some baseline tourist attractiveness, but you get I mean. If city based demand wre implemented in AWS there could be some way to generate potential demand at lower and lower prices. At the same time, especially in wealthier regions of the world, there would be a certain percent of the demand which would behave similar to how pax in this game behave now, where they are not sensitive to price but rather prefer higher name value, and in flight services. Of course  then another system would have to be made to determine how good your inflight services are, but this is a feature I really want to see.

Additionally more factor could be considered, for example business passengers could be the most sensitive to takeoff times and such and be less bothered about price, as well as travellers in economy who are "visiting family or travelling for business reasons" would also be less sensitive to lower price. Basically, I believe with enough finesse it would be possible to make a demand model for pax that considers price, inflight service, in addition to the factors already considered in AWS. I believe these factors, in addition with city based demand, hopefully with transfers possible would make airwaysim so incredibly fun and complex.

 

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