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Author Topic: Metro 25 seat configuration  (Read 1575 times)

Offline Cardinal

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Metro 25 seat configuration
« on: March 12, 2019, 04:28:43 PM »
The popup tooltip for the Metro 25 says "Max capacity 25". When you try to create a seating configuration for it, it says "Max 21". But the configuration page will only let you put 20 seats in it, even though 21 is in the dropdown. If you select 21, it reverts to 20 and if you click "Set to max" it sets it to 20.

So which is the max seating? 20, 21, or 25?

Offline schro

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2019, 05:59:05 PM »
I'm going to venture a guess that the restriction is related to MTOW. How does the payload/range chart look?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2019, 06:20:23 PM »
What does the range/payload have to do with building a configuration for a type? I'm talking about a discrepancy between what the aircraft info screen says is the maximum seating capacity and what the configuration screen says is two different maximum seating capacities.

Offline schro

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2019, 06:51:32 PM »
What does the range/payload have to do with building a configuration for a type? I'm talking about a discrepancy between what the aircraft info screen says is the maximum seating capacity and what the configuration screen says is two different maximum seating capacities.

Seat configurations are not allowed to be made by the seat configuration if it exceeds MTOW for all available variants. I do see something buggy in that I cannot select 21 regular Y seats in the configurator even though it's a valid factory default condition.

If you look at the Metro 25, i can't see the payload range chart (as it's a conversion) but what I can see is that at 21Y seats, it has 40kg of payload available (meaning, MTOW = weight of 21 pax + bags + 40kg of cargo). If you were to add one person to the mix you would subtract 40kg of cargo and be over MTOW as a single person's estimated weight plus bags is greater than 40kg.

Therefore, for the Metro 25, your maximum seat capacity is 21, whether it's HD or regular Y seats.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2019, 07:15:01 PM »
Again, not the point. The point of this post is that the Aircraft Info page shows a max of 25, when that number is not possible. I don't see what's so complicated about that. It's a simple discrepancy. It's probably a typo on the tooltip.

Offline schro

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2019, 07:21:58 PM »
Again, not the point. The point of this post is that the Aircraft Info page shows a max of 25, when that number is not possible. I don't see what's so complicated about that. It's a simple discrepancy. It's probably a typo on the tooltip.

The max of 25 relates to the amount of floor space that is available on the plane to fit seats, and not to the maximum capacity of a plane to lift everything loaded on it.  Virtually every plane in this game has an MTOW that is greater than the weight of its max passengers + bags, except for this one, the 757 with RR engines (good luck trying to assign a max HD seating config to it), and probably a couple others...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2019, 07:46:28 PM »
Well at the very least, it's misleading. I converted the plane based on the advertised max capacity of 25. If that number is not possible (and there is only one MTOW variant of this type) it needs to be advertised as 21.

And anyway, the configuration tool for this type is still broken (20 vs. 21).

Offline Sami

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2019, 10:19:36 PM »
This is normal behaviour in certain aircraft (not so many of those, but about 10 of all 650 I'd say).

Cabin space and pax capacity certification considered you could fit 25 but with that weight variant the payload capability runs out earlier and you can't fit the plane so full of seats or it would exceed either maximum payload it can carry. This is also partly because AWS models the average weight of a passenger slightly differently to what the certification rules in 1970s have been, in other words the pax weight is a bit higher compared to back then.

Same aircraft model might have many weight variants and the "worst" of those might not be able to be configured with the maximum certified pax capacity while the better might be, so the a/c max seat capacity display can't be changed. It's up to the seat configurator system to determine the actual capacity and limits when seat config is added/created.

Though since I've never flown that type I don't know if it was even actually ever possible to fit it with 25 seats in the real life ..


Seat configurator 21/20 seems to be wrong.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 10:21:41 PM by Sami »

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2019, 11:48:01 PM »
Same aircraft model might have many weight variants and the "worst" of those might not be able to be configured with the maximum certified pax capacity while the better might be, so the a/c max seat capacity display can't be changed. It's up to the seat configurator system to determine the actual capacity and limits when seat config is added/created.

But this is the only weight variant of this type. It is a conversion from a type that has two weight variants, though, but they both convert to the same MTOW just like Cargo conversions do.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2019, 08:03:01 AM »
Seems like the bug is more about the description, then. If 25 seats is impossible, then the description should not mention that number.

Offline Talentz

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2019, 08:53:57 AM »
I think its a weight issue. It could probably haul 25 kids. But as Sami has stated, the Pax are too fat. Though the max payload is less then the Metro 23, So that could be the actual issue. Overall, the project was canceled anyway and the designs and improvements resulted in the Metro 23.

If you look at the payload chart, the 25 can only lift max 22 pax because of its 2000kg payload. While the Metro 23's payload of 2268kg can fly 25 pax, but alas its limited by MTOW. Which the 25 is not. Kinda funny, but I'm guessing Cardinal is not laughing.

I suppose Sami could adjust the 25's max payload to match the 23s... but that's his call. The only source found with any payload info indicates 2000kg.  :-\

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1989/1989%20-%203296.html


Talentz
Co-founder and Managing member of: The Star Alliance Group™ - A beta era, multi-brand alliance.

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2019, 12:27:20 PM »
i can't see the payload range chart (as it's a conversion)

You can see the payload/range chart through the "Compare aircraft" page.

Offline ArcherII

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2019, 12:34:29 AM »
Well, the Metro II is certified for 19 pax, but you can't put any gram of fuel if you fill out all the seats.

EDIT: IRL.

Offline sanabas

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2020, 11:53:43 PM »
Yak-40 has issues around this, too. The default config is 30 HD seats. The lower MTOW can only haul 31 pax. The configurator will allow you to choose 28 or 32 HD seats, but doesn't have an option to choose the 30 seats it leaves the factory with.

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2020, 02:34:16 PM »
Yak-40 has issues around this, too. The default config is 30 HD seats. The lower MTOW can only haul 31 pax. The configurator will allow you to choose 28 or 32 HD seats, but doesn't have an option to choose the 30 seats it leaves the factory with.

Ah. Interesting... But can you still choose "used, etc." or "factory default config"?

Offline sanabas

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Re: Metro 25 seat configuration
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2020, 06:11:03 PM »
yeah, it will. And i don't know what happens if you try and configure the lower MTOW version with 32 seats, as I haven't flown one yet.

 

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