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Author Topic: [-] new rule : no holding used planes for others  (Read 1229 times)

Offline groundbum2

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[-] new rule : no holding used planes for others
« on: March 07, 2019, 01:41:54 PM »
GW2 has a VERY tight used airplane market, and I heard a whisper on a forum that alliance members "hold" a used plane for other members. I can also see this where I try and lease a used plane, to be told someone else has a reservation on it for 3 minutes. I can see the 3 minutes count down to zero, then perhaps another 3 minutes start. I know it doesn't take 3 minutes to lease a plane, changing the lease period and the seat config takes 30 seconds max. I would suggest this is one player grabbing the reservation, then alerting other players and releasing the reservation in coordination with another player.

I'd like to suggest a rule be made that as soon as a person decides they don't want to lease the plane, they release the reservation. And that if coordinated behaviour is seen in the logs then planes already bought/leased by players involved could be forfeited without recourse.

Simon
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 09:43:00 AM by Sami »

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2019, 04:34:42 PM »
I see no reason why this is a problem.

Offline Mort

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2019, 05:50:37 PM »
You can simply join in with spam refreshing the used aircraft listing, everyone can publicly see when the reservation expires, so it's a pretty even playing field.

Offline Zobelle

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2019, 06:01:56 PM »
You can simply join in with spam refreshing the used aircraft listing, everyone can publicly see when the reservation expires, so it's a pretty even playing field.

Yeah, the system is honestly pretty fair as it is.

I say let it be.

Offline groundbum2

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2019, 07:00:03 PM »
I see this as being as ungentlemanly as taking slots without an intention to make the route work. So either replace the route later with bigger planes, or give them to another alliance member at the other end. Just as naughty to my mind.


I think the fuss made by the alliance players show this is an ingrained practice, and makes an already tight used plane market tighter which means the big boys get bigger quicker at everybody elses expense.

Simon

Offline Zobelle

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2019, 07:27:06 PM »
I see this as being as ungentlemanly as taking slots without an intention to make the route work. So either replace the route later with bigger planes, or give them to another alliance member at the other end. Just as naughty to my mind.


I think the fuss made by the alliance players show this is an ingrained practice, and makes an already tight used plane market tighter which means the big boys get bigger quicker at everybody elses expense.

Simon

As it is we’re already coddling airlines that can’t get their crap together at the expense of ruthless profiteering.

Survival of the fittest is basic nature.

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2019, 09:00:33 PM »
I see this as being as ungentlemanly as taking slots without an intention to make the route work. So either replace the route later with bigger planes, or give them to another alliance member at the other end. Just as naughty to my mind.


I think the fuss made by the alliance players show this is an ingrained practice, and makes an already tight used plane market tighter which means the big boys get bigger quicker at everybody elses expense.

Simon

Sure, blame the alliances...

If you can't join them, beat them ;-)

Offline groundbum2

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2019, 10:21:33 AM »
It's occurred to this part of the system could be rigged more than I thought.

I'm guessing there's nothing to stop somebody with a PC from opening multiple browser windows, and then reserving, say, 15, used planes, 1 in each window, until their buddies come online following an alert, and a handover takes place. I know we have 3 planes/week limit on the UM, but that's purchases. I'm guessing reservations aren't on a quota.

For the sake of 500 people who have paid good money to play a game advertised as one thing, but which in GW2 has turned into a drudge paying money for nothing (would you pay for Call of Duty if the game was playable only 3 hours/week, and that only when the big players took their eye off the ball?) can I ask that the admin take steps to ensure they deal with reservation hogging,  as they did in slots, another scarce game defining resource.

Simon
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 10:24:25 AM by groundbum2 »

Offline Sami

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2019, 10:36:32 AM »
Each airline can have only 1 active reservation at each time. If you reserve another, your other reservation is removed. And the same airline can't reserve the same aircraft for several minutes after it has exipired, so you can't queue your reservations either. (= the system isn't so stupid)

However, I do find it at the very borderline of the rules at least IF indeed member "a" logs in, reserves the plane and then at the end of 3 minutes member "b" logs in and actually buys it and they coordinate it together. (however there is no guarantee that "b" is able to get the aircraft if some other guy, "c", is also waiting for the 3 minute timer to run out...)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 10:59:05 AM by Sami »

Offline tyteen4a03

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2019, 11:35:51 AM »
I can confirm that I once managed to intercept what was clearly an alliance hold for myself.

The current UM system is awful, but it's definitely doable if the Gods of AWS is looking you way...

Offline DanDan

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2019, 11:39:11 AM »
Each airline can have only 1 active reservation at each time. If you reserve another, your other reservation is removed. And the same airline can't reserve the same aircraft for several minutes after it has exipired, so you can't queue your reservations either. (= the system isn't so stupid)

However, I do find it at the very borderline of the rules at least IF indeed member "a" logs in, reserves the plane and then at the end of 3 minutes member "b" logs in and actually buys it and they coordinate it together. (however there is no guarantee that "b" is able to get the aircraft if some other guy, "c", is also waiting for the 3 minute timer to run out...)

but since A can stop the reservation after like 2,5 min, in coordination with B... that makes it even more vulnerable to this “borderline” behaviour?

Offline Zobelle

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2019, 11:50:00 AM »
I can confirm that I once managed to intercept what was clearly an alliance hold for myself.

The current UM system is awful, but it's definitely doable if the Gods of AWS is looking you way...

The fact you can do this and catch the changeover means nothing is broken regarding reservations. (It’s dash minus time)

UM is indeed broken though for other reasons.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2019, 12:26:57 PM »
but since A can stop the reservation after like 2,5 min, in coordination with B... that makes it even more vulnerable to this “borderline” behaviour?

It can be "stolen" even at 2.5 min mark or at 3 min mark.

So I have no idea what is really being proposed, how the behavior of UM should change, and how that new changed scenario / algorithm would be any better than the current.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 12:48:05 PM by JumboShrimp »

Offline DanDan

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2019, 12:31:38 PM »
It can be "stolen" even at 2.5 min mark or at 3 min mark.

So I have no idea what is really being proposed, how the behavior of UM should change, and how that new changes scenario / algorithm would be any better than the current.

i assume the change request is to reduce the "reservation time" to 30 seconds, down from 3 min. makes things harder to "reserve", until someone is back from the bathroom-break ;)

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2019, 12:50:58 PM »
i assume the change request is to reduce the "reservation time" to 30 seconds, down from 3 min. makes things harder to "reserve", until someone is back from the bathroom-break ;)

The 3 minutes gives you enough time to:
- evaluate the C/D check and decide on length of lease
- get a loan if you need to in order to buy
- set up seating configuration, if you need to

So 3 minute seems like a good choice to me.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2019, 12:52:14 PM »
I actually need  the 3 minutes. Time to check the line is still open. A few minutes ago, I reserved a Connie, did then check if I had still destinations, found after some verifications that Islamabad was playable, and finally, after nearly 3 minutes of making sure it was a good idea, I actually leased the bird.

Genuine use of the 3 minutes IMHO. Which prevented me from grabbing another one, BTW. 3 minutes later, all other connies were gone. I do accept the outcome. I'll fill Lahore later.

Offline Zobelle

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2019, 02:43:59 PM »
i assume the change request is to reduce the "reservation time" to 30 seconds, down from 3 min. makes things harder to "reserve", until someone is back from the bathroom-break ;)

Yeah no thanks. Sometimes one had to build a config for aircraft and send to diff base which can take time if not prev prepared for. Perhaps an update to 5min is better with no public knowledge when it ends so only truly dedicated “swindlers” can play “hot potato”

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2019, 03:10:35 PM »
I think it would be useful to show the name of the player who is holding the aircraft.  That's the only improvement I can think of.

Offline Zobelle

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2019, 03:26:25 PM »
I think it would be useful to show the name of the player who is holding the aircraft.  That's the only improvement I can think of.

That could just cause aggravation and for people to become targets.

Offline DanDan

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Re: new rule : no holding used planes for others
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2019, 03:33:05 PM »
i guess most people seem happy with the current state? ... lets see what sami decides on.

 

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