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Author Topic: [-] Incorrect AC Master-Data  (Read 158 times)

Online dandan

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[-] Incorrect AC Master-Data
« on: January 14, 2019, 02:56:00 PM »
A340-500 & A340-500HGW:
Max Pax is 400. Actually the number should be 440. https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/previous-generation-aircraft/a340-family/a340-500.html
Exit limit - the floor area would justify probably a higher number of seats.

Boeing 747 Original Series:
     Max Pax is 349. Actually the number should be 400. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747SP#Specifications
     Exit limit - the floor area would justify probably a higher number of seats.

     Most of the range-values of the 747 are too low it seems. The -200B gets close to 7000nm; instead of the ~4800 in AWS.
     https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/company/about_bca/startup/pdf/historical/747-100_-200_-300_-SP_passenger.pdf
     https://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/boeing-747-100-200/97
     https://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/boeing-747sp/98
     https://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/boeing-747-300/99
     Would make more sense, since many airlines bought the original 747s for their range, rather than their capacity. Plus: would make the 747 actually useful in the game.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 04:08:15 PM by Sami »

Online Sami

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Re: Incorrect AC Master-Data
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 03:10:44 PM »
There are different values given for A340-500 in different sources. But 440 makes no sense in relation to -600 which is at max capacity 475 when comparing the size of the planes. But have to take a closer look.

B747 classic data is checked to be correct and has been updated in 2018 (see changelog), apart from -300 which isn't fully updated yet.

Edit: EASA type certificate dated 2018 says 375 is the maximum...
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 03:20:17 PM by Sami »

Online Tha_Ape

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Re: Incorrect AC Master-Data
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 03:22:46 PM »
8 meters difference for 35 seats between the -500 and -600 (considering HD seating) indeed seems a bit odd. But then what's going on and which one is the truth?
Or is it the -600's seating that's limited because of not enough exits?

Online Sami

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Re: Incorrect AC Master-Data
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 04:07:45 PM »
Jane's 2004-2005: A340-500 max capacity 375, -600 max capacity 475.
Jane's 2007-2008: Same data.

Type certificate data sheet, EASA 20-Jul-18: A340-500 375, -600 440.

EASA evaluation report: A340-500 375, -600: 440.

Airbus website: A340-500 440, -600 475.

= No single right answer. ::)

(But everything points to 375 max for A340-500. -600 has more conflicting information with 440 or 475.)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 04:09:53 PM by Sami »

Online dandan

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Re: Incorrect AC Master-Data
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 04:20:21 PM »
@A340-500:
the 440 are apparently the exit limit for the aircraft; initially airbus only certified it for 375 pax and later recertified for 440. (the 300 has the same exits, but is shorter.
currently the 400 make no sense, as even the -200 has 420 seats max.

Article on the recertification of the -600 to 475 seats (from 440). https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-and-rolls-unveil-plan-to-restore-a340-600-ap-393844/
basically its about how they can increase the secondhand-marketvalue of the aircraft - as the first customers didnt really care about those possibilities.

@747Originals:
cant really check the AWS data for the aircraft, as they are not available anymore... but from what i can remember in GW2, the max range is rather low in comparison to all the documentation i found. maybe there is just some MTOW/Engine-configuration missing?

http://www.aircraft-commerce.com/sample_articles/sample_articles/owners_guide.pdf
http://www.b747classic.co.uk/aircraft-operator-guide

@General, All Aircraft:
would be great if the master data could be accessible to all players... would really help with planning ahead and give new/less experienced players some info on what they can expect. i know, not realistic as noone knew that there would be a 787 in 1950, but since a few players know exactly what to expect from the future, it would be great if all players would get the same information.

Online Sami

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Re: [-] Incorrect AC Master-Data
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 05:00:50 PM »
Anyways, some sources would be needed since even the official EASA certificate says 375..

(Can't open the flightglobal page by the way)

Online dandan

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Re: [-] Incorrect AC Master-Data
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2019, 06:11:03 PM »
@Airbus:
it is about the same article, but from a differnet source: https://leehamnews.com/2013/12/08/airbus-engine-oems-make-the-case-for-a340-future/
apparently they didnt go through with that. so the correct values for the planes are 440 and 375 then i guess, which is far below the exit limit - even if airbus claims 440 for the -500 on their homepage. guess the floorspace-thing would be helpful here.

@Boeing:
found my detailed files on aws-aircraft data i collected now... and it seems rather off:
747-200 with JT9D-7R4 engines: range with 325 pax - 4720. maximum range (no payload): 6600 - from AWS, GW2
747-300 with JT9D-7R4 engines: range with 397 pax - 5820. maximum range (no payload): 7400 - from AWS, GW2
now that seems a bit off, since the 300 is basically a 200 with a stretched upper deck: same MTOW, same fuel capacity, 300 has higher empty weight.

also in comparison to the 100, the 200 seems very off:
747-100 with JT9D-3A engines: range with 325 pax - 4550. maximum range (no payload): 6000 - from AWS, GW2
fuel capacity: 200 has 11% more fuel capacity. MTOW is 13% higher. plus that the engines of the 200 are 21% more efficient per seat than the 100s:
page 10, https://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS1986/ICAS-86-2.1.3.pdf

Offline MikeS

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Re: [-] Incorrect AC Master-Data
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 10:32:29 PM »
Anyways, some sources would be needed since even the official EASA certificate says 375..

(Can't open the flightglobal page by the way)
It's probably because Airbus never bothered to recertify the 500/600 versions since no customer was interested in HD seating for an ulta long haul aircraft.
This is one game metric that is unfortunately causing problems on some models (basing the capacity on the max certified value). In AWS the MD-11 has the same issue (Values of the shorter DC10 being applied).

Mike

Online dandan

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Re: [-] Incorrect AC Master-Data
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2019, 09:24:51 AM »
arrggghhhhh... why did this topic get closed?  :'(

or maybe all the GW2-data i had was wrong, since it was created before the update?  ???
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 09:28:49 AM by dandan »


 

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