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Author Topic: [-] Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204  (Read 162 times)

Offline fark24

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[-] Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204
« on: December 07, 2018, 12:25:25 AM »
In Game World # 3, the cargo volume for the Tupolev Tu-204 appears to be grossly incorrect. The base Tu-204 along with the -100, -120, -200, -220 only list a cargo volume of 69 cubic feet. The -300 model only lists a cargo volume of 30 cubic feet.

As can be seen in the attachment, the underfloor space of the Tu-204 (labeled as "B"), is calculated to be 44.5 cubic meters, or 1,571 cubic feet.

Granted, a portion of this would be taken by passenger bags. If 50% was allocated to passenger bags, there should still be at least 22.25 cubic meters / 785.5 cubic feet for cargo. This is roughly what one would expect - given that the very similar Boeing 757-200 is listed with a cargo volume of 893 square fleet.


Diagram source: https://www.aircharterserviceusa.com/aircraft-guide/cargo/tupolev-russia/tupolevtu204
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 02:09:36 PM by Sami »

Offline Sami

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Re: Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2018, 05:28:45 PM »
Jane's All the World's Aircraft 2004/2005 lists fwd cargo hold volume as 11m3 and aft cargo hold volume as 15.4m3, for variants 204, 204-100, 204-120. This is what we have in the database too and that book is considered to be very reliable. No info on TU's official website .. hmh.

Offline MikeS

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Re: Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2018, 01:20:11 AM »
The AWS figures appear correct when using solely AK containers (see attached first 2 images)
All TU-204, do have another purely bulk compartment further aft and when that is counted, then the whole available space - without using containers- is 43m3
See Tupolev's own website:   http://www.tupolev.ru/en/civil_aviation/tu-204-120se
(Forward: 14.7m3 - aft: 28.3m3)

As for the TU 204-300
I couldn't find any reference to baggage compartment. However, the aircraft is 6m shorter (3m aft, 3m forward sections removed) That makes math easy, as the
forward compartment of the standard TU-204 is 6m long with a volume of 14.7m3, so that is the amount we would need to deduct for the -300 version.
Leaving total hold space at 28.3m3

Should help make the type a little more attractive

Thanks!

Mike

Offline wilian.souza2

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Re: Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2018, 01:25:18 AM »
This is another source (Brinkley's Cargo Freighter), that I've found searching via Yandex (The Russian Google). For the 204C, fwd hold volume is 14,7 m and aft hold volume is 28,3 m - Total of 45 m, similar to the picture fark has posted (Which is not from Tupolev's website, but from ACS, which has diagrams for many other ac models).

Another source (http://www.aviastar-sp.ru/en/products_and_services/aircraft/tupolev_204s/) says:

Forward baggage-cargo compartment 15.3 m3(520 ft3)
Aft baggage-cargo compartment 26.4 m3(1000 ft3)

And, well... there is the Tupolev site (http://www.tupolev.ru/en/civil_aviation/tu-204-120se) that says:

Forward baggage-cargo compartment 14.7 m3 Aft baggage-cargo compartment 28.3 m3

Picture from Tupolev:



And to exercise a bit of good sense - who in the world would design an A320 rival which could carry only the passenger's bags?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 01:27:54 AM by wilian.souza2 »

Offline Sami

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Re: Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2018, 02:06:15 PM »
More data - Jane's 2008 says following:

FWD Hold: -100/-120: 11.0m3, -300: 7.4 m3
AFT Hold: -100/-120: 15.4m3, -300: 20.4m3

So it's the same 26.4m3 for -100, and 27.4m3 for -300. The hold volume data stored is the actual usable volume, and the "empty space" between containers is not being counted.

In the book 204C is reported as 44.5m3 (lower holds).

So can't find any errors here really, based on my source. And the internet sources for Cargo variants also correspond to the data of the book.

(p.s. adding the 204 cargo variants today as I already have all the a/c data open for this model anyway!)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 02:10:19 PM by Sami »

Offline MikeS

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Re: Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2018, 05:24:47 PM »

In the book 204C is reported as 44.5m3 (lower holds).


That would be the right volume to be fair because:
1. No need to use contsiners (like A320 family)
2. The 44.5m3 take into account the extra purely bulk hold in the tail which doesn't fit containers.
So 44.5m3 is the correct total volume, usable without containers

Mike

Offline fark24

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Re: Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2018, 07:47:25 PM »
More data - Jane's 2008 says following:

FWD Hold: -100/-120: 11.0m3, -300: 7.4 m3
AFT Hold: -100/-120: 15.4m3, -300: 20.4m3

So it's the same 26.4m3 for -100, and 27.4m3 for -300. The hold volume data stored is the actual usable volume, and the "empty space" between containers is not being counted.

In the book 204C is reported as 44.5m3 (lower holds).

And that is a huge difference between the source data and in-game data :)

The in-game data only lists a volume of 1.95m3 for models through the -220 and 0.85m3 for the -300.

If the unusable volume & forward baggage holds are excluded, then aft lower-floor cargo should be 15.4m3 to 20.4m3 based on model per the Jane's data.

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: [-] Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2018, 07:55:55 PM »
@fark

don't forget the passenger bags. The resulting 1.95m3 is only once they're loaded.
There might be a bug in the base value, but given that base value, the remaining space seems correct.

Offline fark24

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Re: [-] Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2018, 09:06:40 PM »
@fark

don't forget the passenger bags. The resulting 1.95m3 is only once they're loaded.
There might be a bug in the base value, but given that base value, the remaining space seems correct.

I was excluding forward hold and assuming the bags would go there.

As multiple data points (the Jane's data Sami cites, Tupolev site, Brinkley's Cargo Freighter, ACS) seem to confirm 44.5m3 total lower floor volume, it should be obvious that the available cargo volume is too small by many magnitudes.

I don't know the formula Sami uses to allocate passenger bag space. I do note that the very similar sized Boeing 757-200 (both physically and with respect to passenger capacity) has a lower hold volume of 43.3m3 per wiki and has an in-game cargo volume of 25.3m3.

If the 189/238 max passenger B757-200 with 43.3m3 under floor volume yields 25.3m3 cargo space, the 180/210 max passenger TU-204 with under floor volume of 44.5m3 should have a cargo volume a heck of a lot larger than 1.95m3.

I used the Jane's aft cargo hold figures (15.4m3 to 20.4m3) as a minimum assumption - assuming that the bags go up front and are segregated from the other cargo which would go in the back.


Online ZombieSlayer

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Re: [-] Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 12:33:33 AM »
I was excluding forward hold and assuming the bags would go there.

As multiple data points (the Jane's data Sami cites, Tupolev site, Brinkley's Cargo Freighter, ACS) seem to confirm 44.5m3 total lower floor volume, it should be obvious that the available cargo volume is too small by many magnitudes.

I don't know the formula Sami uses to allocate passenger bag space. I do note that the very similar sized Boeing 757-200 (both physically and with respect to passenger capacity) has a lower hold volume of 43.3m3 per wiki and has an in-game cargo volume of 25.3m3.

If the 189/238 max passenger B757-200 with 43.3m3 under floor volume yields 25.3m3 cargo space, the 180/210 max passenger TU-204 with under floor volume of 44.5m3 should have a cargo volume a heck of a lot larger than 1.95m3.

I used the Jane's aft cargo hold figures (15.4m3 to 20.4m3) as a minimum assumption - assuming that the bags go up front and are segregated from the other cargo which would go in the back.

But the question is, is cargo VOLUME limited or WEIGHT limited in this case. There very well may be volume available but MTOW may limit potential cargo.
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Offline MikeS

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Re: [-] Incorrect Cargo Volume - Tupolev Tu 204
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2018, 12:48:35 AM »
The stored volume values are not ok.

Sami himself quoted earlier that the TU-204-300 has 7.4m3 forward + 20.4m3 aft hold giving a total of 28.2m3 vs in game stored value: 20.4m3
as for the longer models, sami quoted the -120c version with a total of 44.5m3 vs in game figure of 26.40m3

The whole confusion stems from the fact that early information available was quoting "containerized space" which we all know is a lot less than
actual space. Not only is the space between containers lost, but also the aft purely bulk hold where the fuselage shape doesn't allow for
containers (which in the case of the TU204 is 3m long, see earlier image).

Mike
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 12:50:37 AM by MikeS »

 

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