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Author Topic: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?  (Read 721 times)

Offline Tha_Ape

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Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« on: September 01, 2018, 09:53:01 AM »
Hi,

would someone know what is the demand low limit above which we can schedule flight with less than 60 mins gaps without suffering a penalty?
(would love to experiment, but not right now)

Thanks,

A.

Offline MikeS

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2018, 01:22:43 PM »
How I see it: When you've already scheduled a flight for every hour and there is still demand to be met, then there is nothing else you can do other than
schedule more flights in between. I'm not sure there is a penalty at all other than the system not counting them as separate flights when allocating demand. If demand is very high, and you cannot or do not want to schedule larger aircraft, then that would be the only option.
I'm doing it on the HKG-TPE air bridge. On such short routes, turn around times are paramount, so I think it's more efficient to stick to smaller aircraft at 30min intervals
instead of 60min with wide-bodies. I could be wrong though  ;)

Mike

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2018, 02:04:42 PM »
My alliance mate in HKG in GW#2 had some 747 for a while on that very same route, and was doing more than fine.
Using smaller planes on such a route and meet the penalty is (I think) not the best option.

But to go back at what I was asking for, I believed (wrongly?) that there is a certain amount of demand above which either 1į) the penalty is reduced or 2į) the minimum difference in departure times to trigger the penalty is reduced and the full penalty applies below that new limit.

Could someone please be clear on that point?

Thanks.

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2018, 08:13:50 AM »
My rule of thumb is if the demand is above 1000 then Iíll start to schedule less than 60 minutes between flights.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Jake S

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2018, 08:54:18 AM »
My rule of thumb is if the demand is above 1000 then Iíll start to schedule less than 60 minutes between flights.
How about when the demand is above 30k then?  :laugh:

"People who invest in aviation are the biggest suckers in the world."

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2018, 12:10:38 PM »
How about when the demand is above 30k then?  :laugh:

The same rule of thumb still applies, an hour spacing between frequencies isn't necessary at that demand. The spacing which you do have depends on the capacity of your aircraft used. It may be 30 mins, 10 mins, etc. depending on whether you use a narrowbody or widebody. Remember also that there is no frequency advantage once the daily flights exceeds 40 so for a route like that, it's worth looking at larger aircraft.

Having said that, I have happily filled TPE-HKG in the past with 727s and A320s, the flights were about 15 minutes between each other.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Jake S

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2018, 03:21:04 PM »
Using a mix of B763's and B764's with a 20 min gap and still fill the planes up...

"People who invest in aviation are the biggest suckers in the world."

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2018, 07:01:06 PM »
Using a mix of B763's and B764's with a 20 min gap and still fill the planes up...

On a 30k route I'd imagine they'd fill up with 5 minute gaps. I'm not sure what you're asking here?
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2018, 09:36:29 PM »
On a 30k route I'd imagine they'd fill up with 5 minute gaps. I'm not sure what you're asking here?

Not sure you're pointing the right person ;)
My OP was about a more "reasonable" route, domestic 350nm, ~2500 demand.
But if your rule of thumb is right, I should already be able to increase frequency.
Thanks.

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2018, 07:08:35 AM »
Not sure you're pointing the right person ;)
My OP was about a more "reasonable" route, domestic 350nm, ~2500 demand.
But if your rule of thumb is right, I should already be able to increase frequency.
Thanks.


Yes that question was directed at Jake.

You would be fine on that route to go below every 60 minutes, I guess due to the demand then a gap between 30-45 minutes between flights would work out well with narrow bodies. I did test this theory a few years ago when the pax distribution changed so over 1000 youíll be fine.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline wilian.souza2

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2018, 01:05:45 PM »
For destinations with frequent flights I use 30 min gaps, and in some cases even 15 minutes. I don't.see any penaŮty on load factors. But if you use less than that, there will be penalties.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2018, 01:29:08 PM »
I never had problems above 2000 demand at 30 min frequency. I've never tried to pace up from 30 minutes(no need to, where I'm playing). But at 1500 demand, I did actually had surprises with a 30 minutes pacing. Below 200 demand, I therefore stick to 1 hours. Maybe I'm excessively cautious. At least, it works.

Online JumboShrimp

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2018, 09:24:01 AM »
I never had problems above 2000 demand at 30 min frequency. I've never tried to pace up from 30 minutes(no need to, where I'm playing). But at 1500 demand, I did actually had surprises with a 30 minutes pacing. Below 200 demand, I therefore stick to 1 hours. Maybe I'm excessively cautious. At least, it works.

I think the threshold is:
600 pax or below =  60 minutes
1500 pax and above = 30 minutes

Offline DenisG

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2019, 09:35:50 PM »
Is this threshold still accurate?
Thanks.

Offline Mort

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Re: Flights with less than 60 min gaps - when?
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2019, 09:37:36 PM »
Is this threshold still accurate?
Thanks.

Nothing should have changed on this.

 

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