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Author Topic: Adapt used market uptake rate based upon airline size or age  (Read 221 times)

Offline schro

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So, as a fairly usual small regional airline operator in most game worlds, I'm a bit frustrated with the way the game scales once an airline reaches about the 1,000 plane fleet size as it becomes exponentially more difficult to keep an airline running once you pass that mark.  It's not really possible to run an airline with more than 1500 planes due to this as well.

The maximum theoretical plane acquisition rate is about 100 per year from the used market (assume 60-70% of 52*3) plus new planes limited to about 12 per year for extra large and 20 per year for large. When you look at that intake rate and the fact that you have to 1. focus on getting new planes for continuing fleet types and 2. replacing old fleet types with new fleet types, there's only so many you can get and keep the aircraft age below ~24 years (due to unnecessarily high maintenance costs beyond that).

In GW2, I have been working on roughly a 750 plane conversion (L1011 to 777) over the course of the past 7 game years. During those 7 years, I have acquired about 650x 777's through a combination of the used market and ordering new. I still have 100+ planes left to replace.  In order to accomplish this rate, I've literally been setting an alarm to go off every game week to remind me to buy a plane from the used market. That's been my life for the past 44 real life days, and will be as I take on the rest of my deliveries over the next few weeks (as I've over ordered from other airlines by a few hundred for expansion). For long game worlds, this is a miserable existence and not very much fun. While doing these replacements, there's not really the ability to expand as all planes coming in are earmarked for replacing obsolete planes.

My understanding of the used market limit of 3 planes per week is in place to prevent rapid growth from early starts to achieve some level of balance during the major growth phase of a game world. Once the game world has matured (i.e. 15-20 game years in), the importance of this limit should decline. I propose that some mechanism, whether it be an airline's fleet size, the airline's age or a combination thereof would increase the planes per week that can be taken from the used market.

For example:
-Airline must be 25 years old
-If the airline has 501-750 planes in service, 4 per week used market limit
-If the airline has 751-1000 planes in service, 5 per week used market limit
-If the airline has 1001-1250 planes in service, 6 per week used market limit
-and so on.

This structure would 1. Continue to limit early and mid term growth to a reasonable level and 2. Make it a bit easier to deal with yuge fleet transitions.

Online Andre090904

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Re: Adapt used market uptake rate based upon airline size or age
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2018, 12:39:25 AM »
Fully agree. Keep the current limit for game start. Expand the limit for airlines older/bigger than xyz. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Adapt used market uptake rate based upon airline size or age
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2018, 09:45:48 AM »
I would go even further and limit it only through airline age.

Online Tha_Ape

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Re: Adapt used market uptake rate based upon airline size or age
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2018, 10:40:03 AM »
There has been a proposal some weeks ago, about increasing the limit for the UM for planes privately listed. This would sure be a nice step forward without breaking the balance of the game (thus asking for a rebalancing).
Actually, there was different sub-proposals, the most basic one being the setting up of a queue, so you continue to receive planes even during the night (so you don't lose 1/3 of the day).
Can't find the thread, but it sure could be interesting.

Offline MuzhikRB

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Re: Adapt used market uptake rate based upon airline size or age
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2018, 11:19:24 AM »
even adapting a queue will help big boys a little.

for long GWs we can raise the um limit like we shorten the daytime. from 35 min to 25 min per day.
So at the beginning - 3 planes per week. after 20-25 years -> 6 planes. per week
10 years later - increase to 10 planes per week.
if queue will be implemented at the same patch - it will be super!

what it will give to players:
1. more easy and convenient to replace big fleets. it also can open some strategy and increase differences because now half of fleet changes are not implemented only because of possible speed of conversion.
2. more ways to enter GW in mid time. entering the game after 2001 as example and having the opportunity to expand quickly will allow and attract more players to restart/start in long GWs and attack "sleeping bears"... what also give some boost of interest to "bears".

I am totally against limiting to airline age - why the newbie has less opportunity to expand ?
limit to GW age - will give equal opportunity to everyone.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 11:21:27 AM by MuzhikRB »

Offline schro

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Re: Adapt used market uptake rate based upon airline size or age
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2018, 12:05:25 PM »
I do like the queue concept and automation of the used market, but it's also a far bigger feature than just a couple of conditional rules to rate limit the existing used market. I would suspect there's other features that would be prioritized over the development of the queue, thus, even a small change like this would make a meaningful interim impact.

I am totally against limiting to airline age - why the newbie has less opportunity to expand ?
limit to GW age - will give equal opportunity to everyone.

For less experienced players, the limit is for their own good. New players would end up leasing more planes than they can handle, then fail to buy slots, and if they could afford slots, they'd go bankrupt anyway by having too many routes with a 0 RI and competition. The 3 plane limit also encourages airlines to switch to buying planes around the ~300ish plane mark as they will start to accumulate cash that is difficult to spend on leasing at that point.

The airline age metric (paired with planes in service metric) specifically targets airlines that have large fleet replacements to perform. A 5 year old airline should not need to do a 500+ size fleet replacement as it's borderline impossible to even acquire 500 planes in 5 game years.

Offline schro

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Re: Adapt used market uptake rate based upon airline size or age
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2018, 01:00:44 AM »
Further thought on the airline age limit - it would also slow down experienced players that have a bunch of friends sell/lease him/her spare planes (a common occurrence) from using that as an advantage (as it would be a major one... entering a game world with a limitless supply of cheap planes that you can build quickly with?)

Offline MikeS

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Re: Adapt used market uptake rate based upon airline size or age
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2018, 04:41:21 AM »
I love this game.
But having to do a 750 aircraft fleet transition is a trip to hell and back. There is nothing gratifying about it. I really admire the patience and think
it deserves to be incorporated in the airline score somehow.
I wish a mechanism could be worked out whereby the system calculates the rescheduling to a new aircraft type on a whole week basis, perfectly
spacing flights/turn around times for the best results.

Re original suggestion. Perfectly valid request and definitely needed at those fleet sizes

Offline schro

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Re: Adapt used market uptake rate based upon airline size or age
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2018, 11:53:12 AM »
Now that we have a 1000 our of base limit going forward, this feature request is a bit more relevant...

 

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