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Author Topic: Cargo in USSR / Russia  (Read 212 times)

Offline Tha_Ape

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Cargo in USSR / Russia
« on: February 17, 2018, 10:10:38 PM »
Hi,

cargo in GW#2 is said to be really low, but I can't judge as I can't crosscheck with another GW.
And I've been said that
probably because the country is huge, and it is still really undeveloped in the 1970s/1980s, causing the low economic status and thus low amount of air cargo (most cargo is via rail or trucks).

However, USSR/Russia (like every other country) has its own specificities. While land cargo was probably quite developed, some remote areas (frontier lands) remain landlocked and have no roads to connect them to the rest of the country.

Example 1
Norilsk is a clear example. No roads, located above the Arctic circle. Only a port (for some months during the summer), and two airports - yes two.
Still, this city has more than 100K inhabitants, working mainly for Norilsk Nickel. This company is the world largest nickel producer, and Norilsk is its main plant.
Nowadays, because of this combo (location with no land access + large heavy industry plant), Norilsk ranks around 10th for Russian cargo airports, with 14.000 tons yearly.
http://www.rusaviainsider.com/russias-top-20-airports-by-cargo-traffic/
-> while the reliability of the source could be contested, the real figures can't be really far from those.

Norilsk plant already existed in 1981. Still, in game we arrive to:
  TO           FROM
SVO: 0        280
TAS:  0         0
DME: 0        260
KBP:  0         20
LED:  0         60

TOTAL: 620kg/day -> *365=226 tons/year

So except if demand gets a *66 from 1981 to 2015 (which I highly doubt of), we're completely wrong.

Example 2
Yakutsk. 300 000 inhabitants (165 000 in 1982). No road to the rest of the country. Economy based on the diamond (ok, that one is light) but also heavy industries.

Again, to and from the top 5 airports, 410kg daily, 149 tons yearly. IRL there are 13000/15000 tons nowadays.

And there are numerous places like that in Russia, even if Norilsk and Yakutsk are amongst the largest.

Then, I can mention again the 80kg demand between SVO and TAS.

I know USSR/Russia was/is not as developed as the West, but heavy industries and remote locations already existed by then (and were, in some cases, even more developed than nowadays). Russia is not really renowned for being the place of the "light". And Antonov was not Soviet (back then) by mistake, nor the Mi-10 or Mi-26

Still, I can't find any route worth putting a single 737-200C Adv.

Thank you for any kind of improvement.

Edit: GDP to calculate cargo is interesting on average and gathering real historical info is probably impossible, however some adjustments probably have to be made. For example, Russia is not rich but its army is largely furnished (the condition is another matter), and the industry exists. So a number of $ is not a really accurate reflection of the quantity of merchandise (by volume and weight) that's traveling.
On the opposite, the Silicon Valley creates a huge amount of wealth but in comparison is does not necessarily require large quantities of hardware (by volume and weight).
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 10:34:50 PM by Tha_Ape »

Offline Dasha

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Re: Cargo in USSR / Russia
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2018, 11:11:31 PM »
Even though there was mining activity, Norilsk Nickel wasn't founded until after Perestroika, so before this, all the nickel would have been used inside the USSR, And do you honestly believe nickel is being transported by airplane?  The port is kept open by icebreakers for most of the year for a reason. At least they do in Murmansk and Arkhangelsk. Nickel is not put on a plane, but on a boat or a train.

Most cargo back in the days in the Soviet Union went by train or cossack.

And it's impossible to programme the aviation in the USSR and even in Russia as most of it is state funded. How do you think Aeroflot supports the 773ER flight between Moscow and Kamchatka? Or the use of the Konkordski as a postal plane between Moscow and Tashkent?

Lastly, as Sami said, back in the 80's the Soviet Union was still a communism. There was hardly any plane movements at all as nobody had money to buy a ticket or they simply had no need to fly to somewhere else because.. why would you?

The fact that Norilsk is said to be the 10th largest cargo airport in Russia also doesn't mean much as air cargo in Russia just isn't that big.


If you want an airline with air cargo, you've picked the wrong country all together.
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes, decide everything

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: Cargo in USSR / Russia
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2018, 12:52:10 AM »
Nickel doesn't travel by air, sure, and the icebreaker came along a cargo boat to Dudinka as it does today.
Nickel (or other materials) didn't stay 100% in USSR: being a communist country didn't mean there was no commercial exchanges. But that's another matter.
However such places can't rely only on the cargo boat and icebreaker coming every month or so. More frequent shipments have to happen.

And I was not saying that USSR should be a cargo heaven, only that some situations require strong cargo ops. Strong for USSR / Russia, not compared to the rest of the world. And I did't just said "10th", I also gave the yearly tonnage.

Norilsk was only an example, as was Yakutsk.

Anyway, demand in USSR is actually not that small, it's only strangely located: only to Southern Russia and Southern Ural and that's all, nothing else.
I know the 3/4 of the population is located in the european 1/4 of the country, but the total lack of demand outside of it is still a tad strange.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 01:06:09 AM by Tha_Ape »

Offline [SC] - King Kong

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Re: Cargo in USSR / Russia
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2018, 06:49:58 AM »
Even though there was mining activity, Norilsk Nickel wasn't founded until after Perestroika, so before this, all the nickel would have been used inside the USSR, And do you honestly believe nickel is being transported by airplane?  The port is kept open by icebreakers for most of the year for a reason. At least they do in Murmansk and Arkhangelsk. Nickel is not put on a plane, but on a boat or a train.

Most cargo back in the days in the Soviet Union went by train or cossack.

And it's impossible to programme the aviation in the USSR and even in Russia as most of it is state funded. How do you think Aeroflot supports the 773ER flight between Moscow and Kamchatka? Or the use of the Konkordski as a postal plane between Moscow and Tashkent?

Lastly, as Sami said, back in the 80's the Soviet Union was still a communism. There was hardly any plane movements at all as nobody had money to buy a ticket or they simply had no need to fly to somewhere else because.. why would you?

The fact that Norilsk is said to be the 10th largest cargo airport in Russia also doesn't mean much as air cargo in Russia just isn't that big.


If you want an airline with air cargo, you've picked the wrong country all together.

What do you know about USSR?  >:( >:(

 

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