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Author Topic: [ok] Game Start Fairness, part 2  (Read 642 times)

Offline schro

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[ok] Game Start Fairness, part 2
« on: December 21, 2017, 07:25:28 PM »
I haven't really paid attention until this most recent game world start, but I think the cash adjustment needs to be a bit less generous.

In the current GW3, we're about 5 months into game play and players are still struggling to gain size and planes while also covering slot costs. We've been grinding away to grow just a little bit, but now we have new entrants showing up. Using CV as a proxy of funds available, a 5 day old airline is in currently in my base and has a company value of 10 million dollars, ranking it 15th in the entire game world. The airline has also leased 5 A320's and acquired slots for all 5 of them with its starting cash. Couple that with the RI boost (which it is leveraging by dumping on the MCO route), I wouldn't be shocked if the airline... flew... above everyone else (assuming it's a decent player). In comparison, if you look across the game world, only the top 100 airlines are up to 5 planes at this point.

That being said, I'd propose that the increase in starting cash hold off for a year after the game world starts, as there will still be plenty of unmet demand in ANY given game world at that point where a new airline is not at a significant disadvantage against the incumbents that have actually been playing.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 02:09:47 PM by Sami »

Online gazzz0x2z

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Re: Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2017, 07:54:41 PM »
The thing is, game difficulty vary greatly. After one year in previous GW3, I was strong enough to steamroll anyone fool enough to open in CDG, and already looking for a second base. This time, such a feat is basically impossible - despite the excellent level of current CDG players. I overall agree with the idea, but it would be ideally dynamic. Better bonus in easier game, lower(or delayed) bonus in harder game.

Offline Sami

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Re: Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2017, 08:16:40 PM »
Game 3 is now 145 days old.

A new airline just started and he had ~17mil start up cash, vs. 15 mil at day 0. (This depends on the airport size though)

Route image and Company image boosts start from 180 days and start to grow gradually, so everybody starting now will have the same CI/RI as in day 0 still.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 08:20:02 PM by Sami »

Online JumboShrimp

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Re: Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2017, 09:20:22 PM »
There is one variable that may be particular to GW3 - since it is a game not limited by aircraft availability, but by other, more reasonable bottlenecks (money, slot cost).

When the game started, and UM was populated, the aircraft that appeared on UM was bought almost right away, at prices that AI brokers demanded (some high).

Now, few months later, most of the starting airlines are still bogged down, with 3-6 aircraft, the UM is flooded, some aircraft have been there for a while, with several opportunities for price reductions.

So a starting player
1. gets to lease aircraft at 50-60% cost of the airlines starting on Day 1. 
2. get extra 2 million cash.

#1 probably a makes bigger difference.  But 1+2 again makes it disadvantageous to start on Day 1.

There is nothing really that can be done about #1, given that everything about the start of GW3 was just about perfect.

So maybe no extra cash until 180 days?

Offline SP7

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Re: Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2017, 10:43:14 PM »
I don’t think he’s as big of a threat as you think - it’s going to be months before that airline is cash flow positive if it even survives that long, and that’s assuming no one in MCO or LGA decides they want to also fly that route.

5 fully scheduled planes was possible on a day 0 start so the only real advantage he seems to have is that instead of 727/md80s he has a320s. That’s not close to being enough of an advantage to overcome 5 months of operations assuming similar levels of player skill.

Offline schro

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Re: Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2017, 12:35:00 AM »
I don’t think he’s as big of a threat as you think - it’s going to be months before that airline is cash flow positive if it even survives that long, and that’s assuming no one in MCO or LGA decides they want to also fly that route.

5 fully scheduled planes was possible on a day 0 start so the only real advantage he seems to have is that instead of 727/md80s he has a320s. That’s not close to being enough of an advantage to overcome 5 months of operations assuming similar levels of player skill.

I'm not so concerned about the threat in this case, it's just looking at what he was able to schedule versus myself in the first five days.

I'm glad the RI and CI boosts haven't kicked in. Though, an extra 2 million in cash is a full set of slots or two, which is still fairly significant at this stage....

Offline Zobelle

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Re: Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2017, 02:10:57 AM »
There is one variable that may be particular to GW3 - since it is a game not limited by aircraft availability, but by other, more reasonable bottlenecks (money, slot cost).

When the game started, and UM was populated, the aircraft that appeared on UM was bought almost right away, at prices that AI brokers demanded (some high).

Now, few months later, most of the starting airlines are still bogged down, with 3-6 aircraft, the UM is flooded, some aircraft have been there for a while, with several opportunities for price reductions.

So a starting player
1. gets to lease aircraft at 50-60% cost of the airlines starting on Day 1. 
2. get extra 2 million cash.

#1 probably a makes bigger difference.  But 1+2 again makes it disadvantageous to start on Day 1.

There is nothing really that can be done about #1, given that everything about the start of GW3 was just about perfect.

So maybe no extra cash until 180 days?

Why not leave extra cash (the little that is), alone.

The day one starter will always have the advantage of being #1 to the market. A little “fairness” cash is not a bad thing.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2017, 03:41:39 AM »
And yet people still claim that it is "impossible" to be at all successful if you don't start on Day 1  ::)

Offline Zobelle

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Re: Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2017, 04:01:30 AM »
I think the game is about as fair as it’s going to get and even that is bordering on absurdity.

Online gazzz0x2z

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Re: Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2017, 07:49:52 AM »
Yep. There is no fairness between bases. There is no equivalence between me, starting previous GW3 in CDG without experimented opposition(while this time it seems far tougher), and someone who would want to play quietly in Johannesburg and who would face schro, frimp and Talentz at the same time.

Nothing can balance that. You can face excellent opponents, but who have a high pricing policy, or meet opponents who will sacrifice their company to kill yours. Or be left alone. Or have weak opponents who kill themselves. Or something inbetween. This is utterly random. You can't forecast it. It's highly unfair, and beyond Sami's reach.

Offline Sami

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Re: Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2017, 02:07:13 PM »
Made a small adjustment to the calculation but no major changes.

Offline SAUR E. SAUR

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Re: Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2017, 09:25:59 PM »
Made a small adjustment to the calculation but no major changes.

Thanks for listening, Sami!

Offline Zombie Slayer

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Re: [ok] Game Start Fairness, part 2
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2017, 04:44:00 AM »
While we are at it....how is it that an airline that is a month and a half old has a CCC rating while an airline making 5 mil a week has yet to climb above CC?! Not only did they get 3 mil in extra cash, nkwnthey have a better credit rating and will be able to borrow quicker.
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