[-] How come we have fictional A/C that never flew but not A/C w/100+ MFG'ed?

[drhyed (Crash Airline)]

I was reading over the AW.55 Apollo description and it says In real life engine design problems caused the project to be abandoned. Fair enough I love variety but on the other hand the DC-8 Super 70's of which over 100 were built and served in commercial service and is still in service today hasnt been added? I could find several requests that the aircraft be added going back to 2009 so I know its not an oversight, does any one have an "official" reason why its never been added to the database?  I love the inclusion of aircraft that never made it base the drawing board or prototype stage, we need the variety! But it drives me crazy I cant have aircraft that were produced and in very large numbers.


Thanks
Jay     

[schro]

The Super 70's weren't built straight from the factory, but rather they were -60's that were re-engined. There have been a number of requests for re-engining, but they were shot down over the years. It was heavily requested when the hushkit "upgrades" were happening but I believe there were a couple issues with it, one of which being that the technical model for upgrades only allowed one per aircraft, so one could not hushkit AND upgrade engines. I think putting CFMs on 707s and DC8s could be a very interesting dynamic/business case for keeping them around in game longer.

However, due to the "too small" penalty kicking in fairly early on, it's unlikely that re-engining them will improve their later years usage unless that too is modified....

[drhyed (Crash Airline)]

Gotcha so it could be a in game limitation, where its either a hush kit or a re-engine ... Then how about having them show up in the used market (and/or offered new?) as a stand alone version of the DC-8 in about 1980 or 1981? I understand that wouldn't be a completely accurate version of how they were made available and an airline would have to shuffle things a bit more, but for those running the type it would still offer them the option to integrate them into their fleet. The conversion was reported to have cost about $12 million, we could have 12-14 year old fresh D check'd mid timed DC-8-70's air frames show up in the used market with the premium cost over what used 60's are worth.   

[Sami]

so one could not hushkit AND upgrade engines.

Yes - only one installed upgrade per aircraft. However you could have multiple upgrade options. So either a hushkit or CFM. Though the interface will not probably understand, currently, that could change the upgrade (from hushkit to CFM). But that's not a major thing.

But you cannot then hushkit the CFM .. but I guess it's chapter 3 anyway?

Otherwise the re-engine thing is as discussed. Cannot have the plane pop up as used to the market as they have to be built first as new and CFM DC-8 was never built new ..etc.

[schro]

Yes - only one installed upgrade per aircraft. However you could have multiple upgrade options. So either a hushkit or CFM. Though the interface will not probably understand, currently, that could change the upgrade (from hushkit to CFM). But that's not a major thing.

But you cannot then hushkit the CFM .. but I guess it's chapter 3 anyway?

Otherwise the re-engine thing is as discussed. Cannot have the plane pop up as used to the market as they have to be built first as new and CFM DC-8 was never built new ..etc.

Yes, it'd probably be chapter 3, but I would also imagine that brokers would wise up and spend the cash to upgrade the plane for sale on the market. Players likely would as well.

However, back to the too small warning - the 707 and dc8 are dead effective 1980 regardless, so an engine upgrade at that point is rather moot.

[Zombie Slayer]

Yes, it'd probably be chapter 3, but I would also imagine that brokers would wise up and spend the cash to upgrade the plane for sale on the market. Players likely would as well.

However, back to the too small warning - the 707 and dc8 are dead effective 1980 regardless, so an engine upgrade at that point is rather moot.

Unless the "Super 70" could be considered a new fleet group (retaining commonality with the DC-8-1/2/3/4/5/6) with a higher average seat count (via the loss of all the smaller early -8's) thus breathing new life into the model.

[qunow]

https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php?topic=62169.0
From the way Sami wrote it, it seems like the difficulties regarding reengine is about in real world it is expensive and time consuming and thus rarely executed. I think the problem can be resolved by restricting re-engineing to historical re-engine plan, which could make re-engine work in the game.

I have tried to search for other feature request posts for reengine in the forum, but the only respond by Sami I could find about re-engine was made from before the launch of engine noise restriction (2008), which only say the noise restriction system is still under works.

[drhyed (Crash Airline)]

Below are 7 separate unique posts asking specifically for the addition of DC-8-70's or referencing why DC-8 super 70's are not included. The argument of
 "the 707 and dc8 are dead effective 1980 regardless, so an engine upgrade at that point is rather moot." is opinion not fact, noir a valid argument about why a historically accurate aircraft should/should not be included in the game. This game is full of aircraft that you could make valid arguments about their impracticability about yet they are included in the game, Ive flown the 737-700ER's on Long Hual routes and gotten too small warnings and still turned good profits with them. Ive flown MD-11's against all common sense and was the only person in the game world flying them, and made money. Sure I could have made more with other air frames, for some players its not just about how much money we make but the variety in which we make it. If I make the same fleet choices every game it gets boring and predictable. Id also argue that any route you plan to run 757's on would work with dc-8-70's and would also make a great way to transition between those 2 frames. Re engine your dc-8's until you can get sufficient numbers of 757's and they may even make a bridge for those players planning on flying 767's.



https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,71086.msg411349.html#msg411349

https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,52088.msg296656.html#msg296656

https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,25934.msg418878.html#msg418878

https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,54588.msg314445.html#msg314445

https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,43286.msg235997.html#msg235997

https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,18905.msg90231.html#msg90231

https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,38516.msg206571.html#msg206571

[gazzz0x2z]

The 737-700ER is a special beast. I like it a lot. You'll never make big money with it-  but it prepares the path. As soon as it's getting too small, replace it by a plane that would have been too big before. Not a game-winner, but properly used, may be very useful.

[Sami]

Closed as duplicate. https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,52088.0.html