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Author Topic: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency  (Read 2416 times)

Online Zombie Slayer

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Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« on: June 27, 2017, 04:51:45 PM »
So, I have been playing AWS for just over 7 years now. With all the airlines I have run I have never seen a penalty with the 3rd aircraft type, although I have heard others ask about it but generally brushed it off as just the added cost for the 3rd type, not a jump in the cost of the other two types. Well, today, as I added my first CV-240 in GW 2 I saw it in action. My commonality jumped by almost 100% with my first CV-240.

So, my question here is why is there inconsistency with the penalty, or normal lack thereof, for the 3rd fleet type? Why would this particular game, after 7 years of playing, decide to impose a penalty? Are there specific criteria to avoid such a penalty? (ie is it fleet size specific, so since I added a 3rd type under, say, 30 frames a penalty is imposed?)

Screen shots are attached for reference.
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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2017, 10:19:40 PM »
And to prove my point, I was just starting to add E-Jets in GW4. Attached are commonality reports for just F70/100 and ERJ, and with Fokkers, ERJ's, and E-Jets. In this case (and in every other game I have played) the cost of types one and two do not change with the addition of the third type.
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Online MuzhikRB

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2017, 08:20:58 AM »
i cannot understand last pictures.

246|400|15

how its connected with each other ?

Online MuzhikRB

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2017, 08:23:44 AM »
and why - on every picture there are 3 types ?
can you show with 2 types commonality first. and then with 3 ?

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2017, 08:32:53 AM »
In both cases top photo is 2 types and bottom photo is 3 types. First post is GW2, a shot with 2 types, 12 and 14 frames respectively, the 3 types,  1, 12, and 14. Second message is two types, 246 and 400 frames respectively, 2nd shot is 3 types, 8, 246, 400 respectively.
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Offline VitoNg

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2017, 08:34:43 AM »
Maybe Sami changed some algorithm on fleet commonality cost calculation. However, I don't think it is a bug :D It is the change of difficulty level  8)

Offline [ATA] Frimp

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2017, 09:50:27 AM »
Agree with Vito on this one.. don't think it's a bug but Sami tweaking things without communicating to make sure all games are different..  likewise I'm 7yrs + on this game and noticed that Sami regularly makes changes without informing us.. when we look at gw2.. dc6b used to be 45min tat and 1470kg/hr fuel burn and now it's 50min and 1750kg/hr

In a way the changes means that you have to adapt your gameplay from game to game which I don't think is a problem..

More experienced players will pick up on these changes quickly but guess it may be more difficult to have new players understand the dynamics of the game with these unannounced changes.

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2017, 10:20:27 AM »
I mostly agree with you Fred. There have and I am sure will continue to be unannounced tweaks and changes. On the DC-6 subject, the Connie used to be slower than the DC-6, now its faster. Little things that experienced players will notice right away but generally don't affect game play much. With the commonality issue, though, the Times I have seen it reported have been in games where my airline did not have a 3rd type penalty imposed. I would be interested to see, in GW2, if others operate 3 types penalty free. If commonality costs are equal across the board then it's a tweak, if others operate 3 types penalty free it's a bug. That is why I asked questions about what may cause the cost for a 3rd type to rise in my initial post.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 10:32:43 AM by ZombieSlayer »
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Offline qunow

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2017, 10:26:53 AM »
I added a third type to my GW2 fleet and the commonality cost almost doubled.

Online MuzhikRB

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2017, 10:31:27 AM »
well

it is not little tweak.

it is strategy changing thing - It must be announced before GW starts!

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2017, 10:34:41 AM »
Fully agree. Changing from 3 to 2 types penalty free is a fundamental game play change and should be announced, fuel burn or aircraft speed is a tweak and does not need to be announced.
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Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2017, 11:36:50 AM »
Well, I didn't pay a lot of attention when I ditched my last DC3. Should have. I can't compare with GW3, it's 3 game years before I get my first MRJs, and go back from 2 to 3 fleet types.

Still, it's interesting, because in such a plane-constrained game, the temptation is even stronger to go wildly and take a lot of fleet groups. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll have to plan my transitions even more carefully than usually - they'll have to be swift, as I'll be penalized, this time.

Offline qunow

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2017, 03:32:22 PM »
http://i.imgur.com/1ZVXIyB.png The commonality cost dropped back after I deactivated my DC3 group.
http://i.imgur.com/8n99LT3.png Deactivating the second fleet group do not cut the commonality cost by much so 2 types is still penalty free
Remain to be tested: Will the penalty become much larger with 4th plane type instead of 3 or will it stay roughly the same?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 03:40:15 PM by qunow »

Offline Talentz

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2017, 04:10:58 PM »
So, I have been playing AWS for just over 7 years now. With all the airlines I have run I have never seen a penalty with the 3rd aircraft type, although I have heard others ask about it but generally brushed it off as just the added cost for the 3rd type, not a jump in the cost of the other two types. Well, today, as I added my first CV-240 in GW 2 I saw it in action. My commonality jumped by almost 100% with my first CV-240.

So, my question here is why is there inconsistency with the penalty, or normal lack thereof, for the 3rd fleet type? Why would this particular game, after 7 years of playing, decide to impose a penalty? Are there specific criteria to avoid such a penalty? (ie is it fleet size specific, so since I added a 3rd type under, say, 30 frames a penalty is imposed?)

Screen shots are attached for reference.


Could that be because you now have 2 Med aircraft types as opposed to 1 Med and 1 Large? Im flying 3 Med types and the fleet common costs are rather high, although still small in the grand scheme of expenses.

Furthermore, I've always seen my fleet common cost increase with additional types. It may not be a noticeable increase between 1-3, but its always been there.

My guess is Fleet Common has evolved into taking account the amount of total fleet types and what types are operating together. I bet flying 3 types of aircraft ( 2 sm and 1med) is calculated different then 3 types ( Lg, Sm, Med) which is different from 3 types (2 Med, 1 Lg).

Even further beyond... Sami did announce this in the change log: https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,58865.msg404390.html#msg404390

This increased the fleet common cost across the broad on all our starting types. Include this with the new fleet common calculations and I can see why fleet common numbers are something that is more noticeable.

This would also be the first game were these new changes take effect.


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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2017, 04:50:51 PM »
Re: 2 medium planes. The 2nd set of numbers above are from GW4 where I operate 3 medium fleet groups (F100/70, E70, and ERJ) a d 3rd type does not carry a penalty.

RE: The change log post. I read that before I posted. I see changes to types included in certain size categories and reasoning for the changes, but I don't see where it says there will be a change to how commonality is calculated.

RE: seeing cost change from 1-3 types, yes, I see the coat of the 3 types rise as I add them, but as the 2nd set of screen shots show I never see the coat of the first 2 types double with the addition of the 3rd type. The first few frames of a new type are expensive but should not affect types 1 and 2.

I still feel this is a bug or an unannounced change.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 04:55:43 PM by ZombieSlayer »
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Offline Sami

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2017, 06:50:05 PM »
There have been no changes in this area for a veeeery long time... And calculation for all game worlds is the same.

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2017, 07:08:16 PM »
Thank you for the reply, Sami. So, if nothing changed then somewhere, somehow there has to be a bug, correct? Screenshots above should prove said bugs existence I would think?
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Offline qunow

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2017, 06:55:09 PM »

The percentage increaser in commonality cost of going from 2 med to 2 med 1 large is almost the same as going from 2 med to 3 med.

Offline qunow

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2017, 07:03:43 PM »
Increasing from 3rd type to 4th type is still penalized but that is relatively minor.

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Re: Fleet Commonality - 3rd Type Inconsistency
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2017, 11:46:58 PM »
Now I added Constellation as my third group, going from (1 medium + 1 large) to (1 medium + 2 large), the commonality cost have only risen by ~69% instead of ~83% in my previous screenshots. Is the reason being increased fleet size, or using 2 large type instead of 2 medium type?

 

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