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Author Topic: [ok] Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)  (Read 2299 times)

Offline JumboShrimp

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[ok] Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« on: April 10, 2017, 12:35:21 PM »
While ideal solution for bases and aircraft based at bases was proposed by MuzhikRB here:
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,70775.0.html

If something along the lines MuzhikRB proposed is not implemented I would suggest that at least the aircraft out in bases does not stop growing in 2010 at 600.  The end year of the game world was extended first to 2030, and now to 2036, but the limit is stuck.

For long term playability, to give something for players to do in the last years of the Game World, I suggest this number should keep growing.  I think starting 2010 this number should grow by 20 aircraft per year, which is 3%, to match the growth in demand and if the end year is extended, it should keep growing by 3%:

2010-2020 +20 aircraft per year
2020-2030 +25 aircraft per year
2030-2040 +30 aircraft per year
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 10:52:09 PM by Sami »

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2017, 01:07:04 PM »
IATA Forecasts Passenger Demand to Double Over 20 Years

Geneva - The International Air Transport Association (IATA) expects 7.2 billion passengers to travel in 2035, a near doubling of the 3.8 billion air travelers in 2016. The prediction is based on a 3.7% annual Compound Average Growth Rate (CAGR) noted in the release of the latest update to the associationís 20-Year Air Passenger Forecast.

http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2016-10-18-02.aspx

Since the aircraft is not expected to be getting any bigger (on average) in upcoming years, it will mean more aircraft flying.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2017, 01:30:13 PM »
The aircraft size does increase, but not to that factor, indeed. We need to be able to fly more babies. While not becoming overpowered. A delicate balance to find. I've been blocked already twice by the 600 airplane limit, and, in las GW3, it was as early as 2020. At the same time, I had JFK as a base and not as a HQ, it helps.....

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2017, 01:46:25 PM »
10-15 players with HQ at top 10 airports - the HQ is going to keep them busy for a while.

But starting out at airport ranked #59, there is only so far you can go at the HQ.  If I play actively, I am surely going to hit the limit at around year 2010, and then that's it for the next 26 years.  (GW3)

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 07:08:43 AM »
Exactly. The two times I reached the limit, I was playing in Detroit(currently 29th in GW3), and previously in Edinburgh(currently ranked 154th!!!). I had a lot of fun in Edinburgh, don't get me wrong, but I could only land 30 planes in my Warsaw base when there was demand for 120. Rather frustrating.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 08:31:05 PM »
Agreed.  It can be frustrating to see the demand nearly double in 26 years after 2010, while the aircraft limit stays the same.

The aircraft sizes for appropriate aircraft for the route increase by perhaps 10% (from 738 -> 739er / max, from A320 to A321 - Neo), which is about it what a player can do, while watching demand to double.

Offline Zombie Slayer

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 02:29:32 AM »
Constant growth in out of base aircraft is key to keeping players interested until the end of the game. Based on the forecast demand growth posted in a comment above, lets say that 3.7% annual growth in demand between now and 2037 is accurate. If we add 3.7% to out of base A/C each year starting at 600 planes, the numbers JumboShrimp posted above seem reasonable. At the very lease continue the 10 frame/year increase going until the end of the game, maybe capping at 850 in 2305 based on current game parameters?
Co-founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
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Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2017, 04:31:38 PM »
Constant growth in out of base aircraft is key to keeping players interested until the end of the game. Based on the forecast demand growth posted in a comment above, lets say that 3.7% annual growth in demand between now and 2037 is accurate. If we add 3.7% to out of base A/C each year starting at 600 planes, the numbers JumboShrimp posted above seem reasonable. At the very lease continue the 10 frame/year increase going until the end of the game, maybe capping at 850 in 2305 based on current game parameters?

850 would not even be 50% increase, while the total pax is supposed to go up 100% in 19 years of 2016-2035.

I think there should be a link between the index of pax increase (that the system uses) and out of the base aircraft limit.  So if there is a 100% increase in pax, there should be a 100% increase in out of HQ aircraft.

MuzhikRB still has the best long term solution, IMO:
https://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,70775.0.html

But for the existing game worlds that are going to hit the limit (such as GW1, and especially GW3 that now ends in 2036) the easiest to implement solution would be to implement what I suggested in the OP:

2010-2020 +20 aircraft per year
2020-2030 +25 aircraft per year
2030-2040 +30 aircraft per year

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2017, 02:22:05 PM »
We hit the limit of 600 in GW3 in 2015 (also in GW1)

The prospects for next 21 years: threading water, usually time when I lose interest and system closes my airlines for inactivity (facepalm).

There is less competition, since the demand goes up, and number of aircraft to be used does not, so there is less and less competition.  LFs go up, everybody makes more money...

Increasing the limit (as described in OP) would keep the last stage of the game a little more interesting...

Offline [ATA] Sunbao

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 10:31:44 AM »
Why are we at all bothering coming with ideas 2 month old thread sami has not said a word in it, as he not says a word anywhere else it all just seems stalled.
Cargo is dead not heard more about it for what a year ? city based demand the same.
This game is going nowhere as Sami don't have time for it.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2017, 04:42:26 PM »
Why are we at all bothering coming with ideas 2 month old thread sami has not said a word in it

I was just reminded of it since 2 of the current game worlds (GW1 and GW3) just hit the 600 limit

Cargo is dead not heard more about it for what a year ? city based demand the same.
This game is going nowhere as Sami don't have time for it.

The things you mention are huge changes that need 10s if not 100s of hours to complete and implement.

This change is a literally 10 minute change (including updating the running game worlds with the latest build).

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2018, 10:50:34 PM »
I posted this originally when GW2 started (which extended the GWs to 2036).

2 things changed to make this more relevant and more urgent:
- GW3, which started after GW2, but as a Modern Times game will hit the 600 limit earlier
- addition of cargo effectively drops the limit for out of the base passenger aircraft to 400.  Based on my average of 2:1 ratio of passenger aircraft to cargo aircraft

With addition of Cargo, more airlines will hit this limit earlier, and will be left with prospects of nothing to do for 20+ years.

Johan87

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2018, 09:58:34 AM »
Yes,that would make the last game erea intresting and not only be game filling for the Alliance.
we start in present day a new game with 500-600+ carriers and end with about 120-180?
this say something about the game as people not pay money just to sit till the end and do nothing.

And that 4th fleet penalty should be removed as we have a outside HQ limit anyway,so that rule make no sense anymore then airliners go bankrupt sooner and leave the game,also newer players can develop there airliner more easier.

And for ordering planes this penalty have no use as have a 500 plane max aswell,and see many players order 4 types or more.
So no sense here either.
Cargo have also many converted planes which are old type which will be replaced by modern planes,so if Sami want to keep the game real,then the outside HQ rule already enough and will be nice to have more carriers in in the final days of the game and actually have something to do.

Maybe have a Base start up limit too,based on demand so more airliners will be spread out and this give more airliners a fair chance too then be eaten by the big boys/girls in early stages.
Gw 2 for example started with 11 carriers based in Atlanta and now 30 years later only 3 left and how many of those 8 airliners are still playing from another base?
if i searched correctly just 1 means 7 players left this gw in total.

There are just around 20-30 higly competative players(this game is made for them only,including myself) and the rest is here for enjoying the fun of set up and managing an airliner,so if want to keep more airliners "in game" then this present rules are actually thinning out the game and if Sami have more players in game,means more revenue.
i had 4 friends/family members introduced here and all beeing chased and pushed out of the game just because a few airliners defend there bases,imagine this globally and how many more players would be active.

Offline Zobelle

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2018, 02:33:24 PM »
I propose a game world with no fleet penalties, no basing limits, and no too small warnings. The catch? Astronomical slot and fuel costs. Should be great fun.

Offline Tha_Ape

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2018, 02:56:45 PM »
I propose a game world with no fleet penalties, no basing limits, and no too small warnings. The catch? Astronomical slot and fuel costs. Should be great fun.

And who would manage to get brilliantly out of such a change? Only very skilled players.
Goodbye to all the people playing small / medium airlines.
Not primarily because of the deregulation, but because of too expensive slots/fuel for the time and/or skill they put into the game.

-> not a very good idea in my opinion.

However the original concern is an important one (I'll try to post about that a little later).

Offline Zobelle

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2018, 03:21:27 PM »
Iíd like to see the basing limits segmented at least. Perhaps 600 people movers (Pax/Cargo) and 300 widget flyers. (Freighters)

Would also like to see a softening of the 4th fleet type penalty. If you operate any 2 of a size (S, M, L, VL) at the same time penalty doesnít apply which can account for fleet renewals. This or not applying penalty for a cargo only of a type flown.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2018, 03:36:55 PM »
10-15 players with HQ at top 10 airports - the HQ is going to keep them busy for a while.

But starting out at airport ranked #59, there is only so far you can go at the HQ.  If I play actively, I am surely going to hit the limit at around year 2010, and then that's it for the next 26 years.  (GW3)

Interesting to see this post of mine, about  previous GW3, which I ended up abandoning.  It was in Turkey, where the 600 limit is extra bad.  I ended up abandoning that airline, because to achieve the next objective, I needed more than 600.  So since the next objective was unachievable, no point in playing the last 20-30 years of the GW.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2018, 03:38:43 PM »
This thread is about basing limits, so let's not hijack it with other issues.  There are other threads for those other subjects (such as fleet commonality).

Sami said, back when GW2 was starting that the basing limits need to be looked at, so this thread is just for that.

Johan87

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2018, 10:54:10 PM »
Off course,but sometimes 1 thing lead to another,but back t the core indeed.
sorry for expandiing the topic

This thread is about basing limits, so let's not hijack it with other issues.  There are other threads for those other subjects (such as fleet commonality).

Sami said, back when GW2 was starting that the basing limits need to be looked at, so this thread is just for that.

Offline paddk989

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Re: Aircraft out of HQ now stuck for 26 years (at 600)
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2018, 02:15:55 AM »
 I agree there is a case now to consider not applying a penalty for a cargo only type flown. Most cargo planes are conversions of older airframes, which increases the difficulty to remain within the ideal 3 fleet types greatly.

 

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