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Author Topic: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players  (Read 628 times)

Offline Vebbe

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Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« on: November 12, 2016, 09:05:46 PM »
Hi and greetings from the cold and snowy Finland,

I have been playing this game for quite a long time. I started with my first account in 2010 and played until 2012 when  the man who funded my playing, my grandfather sadly passed away (I was around 12 years old when I started and my grandpa paid for my credits). I started playing again in 2014 after finding renewed interest towards this game.
I have mainly stayed at beginner worlds due to the lack of competitiveness and freedom of making "sandbox" airlines and play around.

Now I am planning on starting to play in the real "big boy" servers and have a few questions before starting:

- Can your flights get full and successful even though your airplane has more seats than the routes passenger demand (for example Airport A to B has an estimated passenger demand of 170 a day and I use a 192-seater A321)?
- How much does company image affect your routes and is it wise to compete in an already stacked route against very big airlines (for example when starting a game world late when there is already huge airlines ruling the aviation world with an iron fist)?
- Does route and airport passenger demand gradually rise when the game world progresses?
- Is it wiser to start a game world where there are large demand routes (for example from Atlanta, Chicago, London, Frankfurt etc.) with less routes and more flights or less flights and more routes (for example 7 routes a week with one flight per day per route V.S. 1 route a week with flights each day)?

Thanks in advance,

Vebbe

P.S.

Does the ready airline templates in the settings menu really have ready layers for Photoshop for realistic shading or do I have to make the shading myself? I don't have Photoshop, just curious.
First introduced to AWS in 2009, still working on how to build an airline.

MRothschild

  • Former member
Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2016, 04:38:45 AM »
Quote
- Can your flights get full and successful even though your airplane has more seats than the routes passenger demand (for example Airport A to B has an estimated passenger demand of 170 a day and I use a 192-seater A321)?

Yes, I've made profit with LF's as low as 30-35%.  Optimal LF is 75% and above.

Quote
- How much does company image affect your routes and is it wise to compete in an already stacked route against very big airlines (for example when starting a game world late when there is already huge airlines ruling the aviation world with an iron fist)?

CI does play a role, but even as a new startup, if you fly with good frequency and pricing, you can compete while your CI grows.  RI also helps.

Quote
- Does route and airport passenger demand gradually rise when the game world progresses?

Yes

Quote
- Is it wiser to start a game world where there are large demand routes (for example from Atlanta, Chicago, London, Frankfurt etc.) with less routes and more flights or less flights and more routes (for example 7 routes a week with one flight per day per route V.S. 1 route a week with flights each day)?

You'll get both opinions here.  I personally vote for more routes with less flights on each.  Your LF will be better.

Offline Vebbe

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Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2016, 10:23:37 AM »
Thank you so much. You still didn't answer the "oversupply" question though. Can my plane of 192 seats get full if the daily demand is ~170?
First introduced to AWS in 2009, still working on how to build an airline.

Offline schro

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Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2016, 11:18:11 AM »
Thank you so much. You still didn't answer the "oversupply" question though. Can my plane of 192 seats get full if the daily demand is ~170?

Demand presented is an "estimate" and given the right conditions you can sell 10-20% more than the shown demand. Therefore yes, you can potentially fill a 321 on. 170 demand route. Though you'd probably want to consider putting in some C seats assuming demand is there.

Yes, I've made profit with LF's as low as 30-35%.  Optimal LF is 75% and above.

Two points here:
1. At a 30% load factor, you are probably NOT profitable but you think that you are. I presume you're looking at the route information profitability (or even my aircraft profitability), of which neither factor in much more than variable costs. Overhead costs like staff are not included in that calculation.
2. Ri is a major driving factor at first. When it is low, you will only be able to sell tickets to about 20-30% of the shown demand, so that A321 will be flying with 50 passengers for its first 6-12 months. Ci is more important for long haul international flights, especially when trying to sell C/F seats.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2016, 11:25:29 AM »
Can my plane of 192 seats get full if the daily demand is ~170?

Yes, but you cannot charge as much.

Offline schro

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Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2016, 11:32:08 AM »
Yes, but you cannot charge as much.

Sure you can, but it's not advisable to maximize your profit. What's the point in charging 192 people 10% less each when you can charge 170 people 10% more and will sell a few extra tickets on top of that at the higher price?

MRothschild

  • Former member
Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2016, 11:42:51 AM »
Two points here:
1. At a 30% load factor, you are probably NOT profitable but you think that you are. oking at the route information profitability (or even my aircraft profitability), of which neither factor in much more than variable costs. Overhead costs like staff are not included in that calculation.

Ah, my always condescending friend schro.  Yes, I was aware of all you say and after taking all into account, was profitable.  With your permission (again),  I'll let my statement stand.
 

Of course, 30% load factor isn't desirable, which is why I'm at 80% in my present game.  :)

Online MuzhikRB

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Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2016, 08:18:26 PM »
so what is your usual game with pricing - just keep them default or increase if LF above 90 ?

MRothschild

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Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2016, 01:55:37 AM »
Increase at 90 and then increase until max profitability is reached (it is usually some type of a bell curve)

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2016, 08:26:56 AM »
Increase at 90 and then increase until max profitability is reached (it is usually some type of a bell curve)

Globally true, but the way it behaves when you're over priced depends on many factors, especially CI and seating. When I was flying CRJ100s in Europe, early in the game, with a low CI, I noticed a 5$ increase in ticket pricing could kill my LF from 96% to 60%. While, for a company like mine now, at 95CI, flying only standard seating or better, overpricing is far less punished. Which allows for easier management of the company. Down to 85%LF for 20 $ more is not catastrophic. Down to 60% for 5 $ more is catastrophic. Especially on such small aircraft where margins are by definition already smaller. And the trap is that the limit is not the same depending on the countries. I had to set lower prices on lines to former Yougoslavia than for the UK, for example(30$ on a 250$ trip, IIRC). For the same demand, same distance. With normal seating and high CI, you do not even notice the effect.

Default pricing is usually a bad idea. You get battered on lines with a lot of opposition. You miss plenty of easy cash on other lines. When you have very big CI, you can afford a simple strategy of "default + 20%". I prefer micromanaging, but it's a question of style at this level. OTOH, when you're small with crappy CI, each $ is important, and micromanaging prices really yields good results.

Online MuzhikRB

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Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2016, 10:19:37 AM »
with current interface I cant imagine how much time you need to spend on micromanaging prices when you have 200+ Acs and 500+++ routes...

MRothschild

  • Former member
Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2016, 10:37:15 AM »
I only fine tune the 90% LF routes, which are roughly 50-100 routes per week.  I simply click the globe (to see the competitive overview) and then change the price for all routes at the same time.  It takes me about 5 minutes per week.  Not bad at all.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2016, 07:37:03 PM »
with current interface I cant imagine how much time you need to spend on micromanaging prices when you have 200+ Acs and 500+++ routes...

Half an hour every 2-3 days is more than enough. For a 700 planes company. And it's not mandatory, as says MRotschild. You'll lose only 2-3 points of margin if you just make a standard adjustment, and then micromanage a few key routes. And that is 5 minutes per week, as he says. In current GW3, I've got a destination with 12 daily MAX9 flights, and not enough competition due to slot restrictions. I'm far aboce DOUBLE the base price on this route, and it's just gushing cash insanely. When you've got such a few identified milk cow routes, the other ones can safely be let to the automat. This ones, OTOH, are strategic. And worth the effort.

I did micromanage all routes every day god makes, for a time, it gave me a better(though far from perfect) understanding of the price model, but it's far too much time-consuming. Now I focus on what really counts. Micromanaging 500 SW3 routes when you also have a few juicy MAX9 is not far from a full waste of time(unless you're having fun, the ultimate measurement of well-used time).

Offline schro

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Re: Some questions for the more experienced and/or better players
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2016, 08:01:28 PM »
Ah, my always condescending friend schro.  Yes, I was aware of all you say and after taking all into account, was profitable.  With your permission (again),  I'll let my statement stand.
 

Of course, 30% load factor isn't desirable, which is why I'm at 80% in my present game.  :)

My points were not provided as a way of trying to discredit what you were saying, but for those reading this thread (whether it's now, or in the future), to make sure that they do not fall into the very common trap of focusing on only the route information page to figure out whether something they are doing is actually profitable or not. I also do not appreciate you opening your response to the statement with a personal attack/insult as it's far out of line with the spirit of this thread, which is to help others with a question.

 

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