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Author Topic: Aircraft production slot question  (Read 2202 times)

Offline Kadachiman

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  • Posts: 921
Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2014, 08:45:10 PM »
I think I have 7 fleet types but out of that I only fly 3.
The rest are either parked up costing / wasting me money or leased out.

You will find that most airlines try to stay at 3 fleet types and may go to 4 or 5 fleets briefly during rescheduling e.g. from props to jets.
The bigger the airline the bigger the 4th fleet communality fee (penalty)
e.g. my fleet communality went from 3.5M to 9.5M when I added the 4th fleet......which is why I grounded them

QANTAS the Aussie icon is under a lot of financial pressure at present and one of the main reasons they give - they have too many fleet types

PS - I just sold my first delivered 737-200Adv which I desperately want to fly to get rid of fuel guzzlers, but the next airframe is due in 6 months so it wasn't worth putting it in the air and having the 4th fleet penalty for 6 months while I wait for the rest to start to arrive on a regular basis.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 08:51:25 PM by Kadachiman »

CitationX

  • Former member
Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2014, 08:51:56 PM »
How can I find out how much fleet communality is costing me as I did not see it on my income statement.

Offline Kadachiman

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Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2014, 08:55:26 PM »
Top of the page
select - Aircraft
scroll down and select - Fleet Comminality

CitationX

  • Former member
Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2014, 09:07:05 PM »
got it!...Thx I looked at that page before, but never really analyzed it. I am interested to see the cost savings once I switch back to 2 fleet types.

Offline Teadaze

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  • Posts: 820
Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2014, 01:38:29 AM »
only a selected few airline chosen by god(kidding) have the luxury of running multiple fleet. But the general rule of thumb as mentioned in pm is it is not economical to run it due to the multiplier placed in fleet commonality. And most airline will rotate old aircraft and try to keep it within the 3 fleet range.

Offline Longbow

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Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2014, 07:27:33 AM »
I've switched from 3 to 1 (bac, so 75 and 100 seaters) anf all my costs are lowered by about an half...

Curse

  • Former member
Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2014, 07:37:41 AM »
There is no penalty commonality cost between 1 and 3, so what you saved is just the normal commonality a particular fleetgroup creates.

Offline Longbow

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Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2014, 08:55:46 AM »
 ...and for a newbie it's a long shot ;)

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2014, 11:12:40 AM »
There is no penalty commonality cost between 1 and 3, so what you saved is just the normal commonality a particular fleetgroup creates.

There is a penalty between 1 & 3, the cost is roughly doubled for each fleet. If a fleet of 20 737s costs you 1 million/month as your only planes, it will cost you about ~2 million/month for just the 20 737s if you also have 2 other fleets. It's quite easy for anybody to verify this just by clearing some schedules.

The big difference between 3 & 4 fleets is the penalty remains a fixed % at 3, but the % increases with fleetsize at 4. If you have 3 fleets of 200 planes each, each fleet will still only cost double what it would if they were your only 200 planes. But if you have 4 fleets of 150 planes each, each fleet will cost maybe 6-10 times what it would if they were your only 150 planes. Increase that to 4 groups of 200, and now they cost maybe 8-12 times as much, so the person with 4 x 200 pays 4-6 times as much for the same 600 planes as the person with 3 x 200 does.

Curse

  • Former member
Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2014, 05:15:18 PM »
@ Sanabas

The part about 1-3 fleetgroups is simply wrong.

2 fleetgroups:


3 fleetgroups:


Data is from GW#4 right now.



Your part about 4th fleetgroup is of course true, another multi-hit occurs then at 6th or 7th fleetgroup (I'm not going to test this! ;)).
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 05:19:36 PM by CUR$E »

CitationX

  • Former member
Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2014, 06:44:42 PM »
I ran into 2 questions regarding routes that i wanted to ask everyone:

1. If I have a route to myself and there are only 40 people per day in the demand, but my airplane can hold 64 pax. Should I block some of the seats to make it seem it has a higher LF%?

2. Is it better to compete with 4 companies for 700 pax demand per day or have a route with 70 pax per day demand and be the lone carrier on that route?


Curse

  • Former member
Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2014, 06:56:56 PM »
1. What gets you money is the amount of pax you transport.
2. Too abstract question for a correct answer.

Offline Longbow

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Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2014, 10:39:05 PM »
Curse has much more experience than me but I saw by myself that a 70 lone route is better than a 700 shared route

Offline Kadachiman

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Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2014, 10:51:31 PM »
As a new airline immediate income is what you need

1. 40 pax demand do not block seats on a 64 seat plane, while high LF looks good it is maximum income per plane that you want...to hell with LF if you are making good profits

2. In your case it is likely better to take the 70 pax route alone rather than the 700 pax route with 4 others
however both will make you money as you will only be suppling 10% of the demand on the 700 pax route so it is highly probable that you will get full planes regardless of CI and RI of you and the 4 others...keeping in mind that strategically it is often good to get your RI on a big pax demand route higher by using a small aircraft ready to put a bigger aircraft on it later ..... So either the 70 or 700 pax route will be good result for you..do both

Curse

  • Former member
Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2014, 11:01:56 PM »
If the 4 companies serve just 300 demand (a BAC 200 each), the 700 pax route is better. If they offer 4000 seats, then the 70 pax route is better.

That's why I said theoretical questions can't be answered properly. ;)

CitationX

  • Former member
Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2014, 03:09:24 AM »
The route has 700 pax/day demand and there are currently 4 airlines including me giving a supply of 1400 seats/day.

This is the route that i am concerned about.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Aircraft production slot question
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2014, 06:52:49 AM »
@ Sanabas

The part about 1-3 fleetgroups is simply wrong.

It is not wrong. Showing no change from 2 to 3 proves nothing about the change from 1 to 3. I've documented the jump in previous threads.



Quote
Your part about 4th fleetgroup is of course true, another multi-hit occurs then at 6th or 7th fleetgroup (I'm not going to test this! ;)).

The next jump occurs at 7, but I believe the 6 to 7 jump is like the 1-3 jump, a fixed rate. Not something I've tried to test in detail.

 

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