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Author Topic: starting an airline late  (Read 798 times)

Offline meiru

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starting an airline late
« on: December 05, 2013, 04:40:34 PM »
did ever somebody of you start an airline (successfull) with jets later in the game?

I did check the statistics and every airline (big airline) I clicked on was founded in the first 10 days when the game started...

I'm still trying to get in again (I got bk because I was not online for some days and very bad things happened in those days) ... but... currently I didn't find a solution ... I hope, that it works with turboprops and that I can then get back to jets... but... I've not that much hope (I know, that it's possible to enter with turboprops, but the change to jets never succeeded... after days of hard work the airline got bk again and again... so... any tipps what can be done? ... the main problem I have is, that the costs for a small fleet are too high ... and building up a larger fleet isn't possible that quick)...

and the next problem ... if you start an airline at fuel prices around 150$, then it's much easier than when the price is >1000$ ... especially for jets
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 05:51:30 PM by meiru »

Offline Pukeko

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Re: starting an airline late
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2013, 07:49:13 PM »
The trick is to pick an airport that has no one already based there... or someone not very good, and start off with routes that are currently not being served with 1 fleet type that is easily available. Increase prices when you LF is high and be a little patient. Make sure you don't D-check.

Offline meiru

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Re: starting an airline late
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2013, 08:08:25 PM »
so, what you say is what I see too... if there's competition on a route, then you can forget it completely... you have to fly exclusively (that happens when the game starts very easily) and if you don't fly exclusively you can't win...

but I still don't see the whole problem... what's the most expensive component of the flying operation, that makes you lose too much, when you are a small airline? ... fleet commonality? ... do you need too much staff? ... what is it? by the way, is it true, that flying to 2 destinations is much more expensive than flying 2 flights to one destination?

Offline Pukeko

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Re: starting an airline late
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2013, 08:30:25 PM »
Well the most expensive factor depends... But is frequently fuel so don't lease gas guzzlers is a good rule. And yes, you need more staff the more destinations you have so try to fly multiple times to the same place first if you can.

Offline Infinity

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Re: starting an airline late
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2013, 10:41:32 PM »
so, what you say is what I see too... if there's competition on a route, then you can forget it completely... you have to fly exclusively (that happens when the game starts very easily) and if you don't fly exclusively you can't win...


That's plain wrong.
On routes with a lot of demand, you can easily outperform all the others by simply not operating more than one (or a few if the route is really strong in demand) frequency in the beginning, even if there is massive oversupply already.
Most new starter make the mistake of starting on routes that just barely fill their plane with full Route Image - well I've got a newsflash, that's gonna lose you money for a loooooong time!

but I still don't see the whole problem... what's the most expensive component of the flying operation, that makes you lose too much, when you are a small airline?

Entrepreneurship 1.01: Almost all new companies that go bust do so on a lack of revenue. This goes for this game also. Only few chose the wrong planes and so on, it's the route choice that's bad and thus the revenue stream is too low.

by the way, is it true, that flying to 2 destinations is much more expensive than flying 2 flights to one destination?

It is noticeably more expensive, yes. But it still makes much more sense to fly single flights on trunk routes first before piling all your eggs in one nest.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 10:45:24 PM by saftfrucht »

Offline meiru

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Re: starting an airline late
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2013, 11:15:07 PM »
One of my problems is also, that I always have to fly too long with too small aircrafts... but other routes don't exist or the route wouldn't fill a large plane... and then, if you don't have a CI of 100 and an alliance that helps you to get passengers... that's hard, also on routes with a lot of demand!

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: starting an airline late
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2013, 01:30:45 AM »
That's plain wrong.
On routes with a lot of demand, you can easily outperform all the others by simply not operating more than one (or a few if the route is really strong in demand) frequency in the beginning, even if there is massive oversupply already.
Most new starter make the mistake of starting on routes that just barely fill their plane with full Route Image - well I've got a newsflash, that's gonna lose you money for a loooooong time!

Entrepreneurship 1.01: Almost all new companies that go bust do so on a lack of revenue. This goes for this game also. Only few chose the wrong planes and so on, it's the route choice that's bad and thus the revenue stream is too low.

It is noticeably more expensive, yes. But it still makes much more sense to fly single flights on trunk routes first before piling all your eggs in one nest.

Agree totally. Start with routes with demand at least 3x of your A/C capacity. At the beginning, you need fast turnover, and main routes are the only way. Competitor's frequency don't work so well if you only fly once or twice daily

I see many new entrants start with empty thin routes, and very soon have to BK, due to lack of revenue as RI doesn't get high enough fast

Offline Sanabas

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Re: starting an airline late
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2013, 02:52:21 AM »
did ever somebody of you start an airline (successfull) with jets later in the game?

Yes.

Here's one of them: http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,42333.0.html

Anybody capable of building a really big airline starting on day 1 should also be capable of starting in MT now, 7 years late, 20 years to go, and build a very big airline by the end of the gameworld. Wouldn't catch up to the very biggest, and would have a limited choice of airports as good options to start in. But would certainly be successful.

Offline 11Air

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Re: starting an airline late
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2013, 10:15:31 AM »
Yes, I'm doing it in Jet8, the early days. managed to get 3 a/c and a debt situation and it is still marginal, but maybe. Small aircraft, really small, seem to be ignored but are also difficult to source. Embraer is the bext bet, the 100 model is still just in production.
I like it because I am playing closer to the real life game, trying to break into a mature market.
I do hit the Monopoly Board far too often though when no-one else is bothering with the destination.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 10:17:33 AM by 11Air »

Offline LemonButt

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Re: starting an airline late
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2013, 01:57:29 PM »
I would argue that it is EASIER to start an airline late versus on day one.  The used aircraft market is usually flush with aircraft so lead times are short and you don't have to worry about the idiot flying 20 year old cheap gas guzzling metal and taking the lion's share of the pax and turning a profit in spite of themselves.

When I start on day 1, I usually end up in 2nd or 3rd place at my HQ in the first year, but within 5-10 years I end up in 1st because my competitors have unsustainable business models.  In the interim, it is a pain in the butt paying higher leases for more fuel efficient planes when the competition is expanding like wildfire flying gas guzzlers when fuel prices are next to nothing.

Online ZombieSlayer

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Re: starting an airline late
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2013, 08:27:48 PM »
I would argue that it is EASIER to start an airline late versus on day one.  The used aircraft market is usually flush with aircraft so lead times are short and you don't have to worry about the idiot flying 20 year old cheap gas guzzling metal and taking the lion's share of the pax and turning a profit in spite of themselves.

When I start on day 1, I usually end up in 2nd or 3rd place at my HQ in the first year, but within 5-10 years I end up in 1st because my competitors have unsustainable business models.  In the interim, it is a pain in the butt paying higher leases for more fuel efficient planes when the competition is expanding like wildfire flying gas guzzlers when fuel prices are next to nothing.

Nothing at all wrong with old metal to start as long as you have an exit strategy. Planning on operating old Diesel 9's or 727's past ~2002 in MT scenarios is bad, but cheap leases offset higher fuel burn initially so as long as you have a plan in motion to replace them in a timely manner from day 1 you should be fine.
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