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Online Airline Management Simulation
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Author Topic: [-] I can't modify order  (Read 957 times)

Offline ezzeqiel

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[-] I can't modify order
« on: August 13, 2013, 10:08:27 PM »
I've made an order that I want to change now, but I can't, and it's 4 years away...



The thing is I can change every aspect of it, except the airplane model... If I make a new order, then I can switch between models as I like, but with that previous order (again, 4 years away from delivery), I can't...



(As I'm writing this, I'm thinking this is intended, which is REALLY p***ing me off)...




First plane is from first order (I can't select other than BAC 200)
Second plane is from second order (I can select both models BAC200 and 300)

Both planes are 6 years away from delivery time...
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 07:27:27 AM by sami »

Sanabas

  • Former member
Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 10:13:11 PM »
Is the model you are trying to change to one that wasn't announced until after you made the order? If so, that's 100% intentional, so you can't order 100 DC-8-30, and then change them all to DC-8-60 once it is announced.

*edit* just saw your edit. That's exactly what it is. You ordered 100 BAC-200 in Oct 61, and the -300 wasn't announced until May 62.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 10:15:15 PM by Sanabas »

Offline ezzeqiel

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Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 10:19:23 PM »
Is the model you are trying to change to one that wasn't announced until after you made the order? If so, that's 100% intentional, so you can't order 100 DC-8-30, and then change them all to DC-8-60 once it is announced.

yes, that's exactly the case...



f*** this game... I'm so MAD right now...


First of all, this cap is not on any manual, so you have to guess about it...

Second, there's absolutely no sense at all on this ridiculous max CAPS put on this game.. this is not how the world works !!!


So I come to see BAC executives and tell them: hello, I wanna change this order 3 years away, and actually get a more expensive frame, which is made in the same line, and they are not even in production, and they refuse ??

Absolutely nonsense... Absolutely irreal...



Which makes me angry at most, is that this is not on any game manual, nor games instructions, and that is one of the many stupid arbitrary CAPS made in this game that you won't guess by common sense...

THANKS to this irreal "gameplay max caps" I just lost 30 million dolars in some planes I won't use... Just amazing...


EDIT: edited the swearings...
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 10:25:02 PM by ezzeqiel »

Sanabas

  • Former member
Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 10:24:28 PM »
First of all, this s*** is not on any manual, so you have to guess about it...

May not help your frustration, but this is from the manual, under new aircraft --> changing/updating an order:

Quote
If you wish to change the aircraft model in the order please be aware that you can only choose such a model that was in the production at the time you originally made that order. This is a game rule to prevent players from abusing the system by ordering lots of cheaper / worse models at the launch of new aircraft model when they know that a new and perhaps better model will be launched in the very near future, and then converting the orders to that model and gaining advantage in the production queue.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 10:27:25 PM »
I knew this was the rule and I remember when it was implemented.  The mega airlines would put in huge orders to lock up production slots and then change them when a new model came out.  For example, they'd load up on 777-200 and then switch it to -300.

Most of the measures put in place are due to abuse, such as the above case.

Offline ezzeqiel

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Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 10:27:52 PM »
May not help your frustration, but this is from the manual, under new aircraft --> changing/updating an order:


They should put it in letters like this, so anyone can notice... because this is against any normal logic about RL world rules...



Sanabas

  • Former member
Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 10:30:03 PM »
But in RL, who would order 100 planes they'll never use, purely in the hopes of an upgraded, usable version turning up some time later so they can change their order?

Offline ezzeqiel

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Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 10:33:02 PM »
The mega airlines would put in huge orders to lock up production slots and then change them when a new model came out. 

Well, that's called an option, which is perfectly ok in RL, but again, this sim has nothing to do with the Real world and reality, even tho the admin says "it's not real" whenever you come up with a cool idea...

Offline ezzeqiel

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Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 10:36:03 PM »
But in RL, who would order 100 planes they'll never use, purely in the hopes of an upgraded, usable version turning up some time later so they can change their order?

First of all, in RL you have options...


Second, it's totally possible that, when a plane upgrades, an airline would want the upgraded version, because otherwise, the other airlines will have a better plane than you...


Finally, you don't have this nonsense Slot production system in RL, so you can't compare... (In RL you can also sell your production slot)...

Offline ezzeqiel

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Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2013, 10:41:43 PM »
Anyway sanabas and lemonbutt,,, sorry about my answers.. I'm just angry...



It's my entire fault since, altought completely unrealistic, it's written in the manual (I must have skipped it)...

Offline LemonButt

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Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2013, 10:44:30 PM »
THANKS to this irreal "gameplay max caps" I just lost 30 million dolars in some planes I won't use... Just amazing...

Were you just being emotional or are you really not going to use them?  While it sucks you can't do what you thought you could, did you seriously order 100 planes with the expectation of not taking delivery of any of them as you ordered them?

Sanabas

  • Former member
Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2013, 10:50:30 PM »
Quote
Second, it's totally possible that, when a plane upgrades, an airline would want the upgraded version,

It's also totally possible that a plane won't upgrade, and then you'd be in the position of wasting $30 million on planes you won't use as well. Say an airline placing an order for 100 Dassault Mercure, expecting to upgrade when the Mercure-300 arrives with 1500 NM range.

Difference is, we know in advance exactly what planes will appear, and exactly what their specs will be. So we can choose BAC over Dassault, because we know there'll be a better BAC model along soon, we know it will eventually double its initial range, and the Dassault will always be stuck with a practical range under 750 NM. Instead of being forced to guess which plane's development will be awesome in 10 years, we already know. So we're only allowed to order the upgraded version once we actually have in-game knowledge of it.

Offline Sami

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Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2013, 07:26:57 AM »
Not a bug, as already discussed.

Offline ezzeqiel

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Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2013, 09:43:11 PM »
Were you just being emotional or are you really not going to use them?  While it sucks you can't do what you thought you could, did you seriously order 100 planes with the expectation of not taking delivery of any of them as you ordered them?

I intended to use half the order, and change the other half...


Anyway, I made another mistake, in order to secure the slots, I ordered the second half on leases, and when I change them to direct purchase, I don't get the discounts, so I calculated it will be cheaper to just cancel the order, and make a complete new one with the discounts and with the intended planes...


Half the order is 15 million, so yes, I spent 15 million just to secure slots... (LHR slots are much more expensive, everybody secure slots there, and nobody says anything... :P)

Offline ezzeqiel

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Re: I can't modify order
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2013, 10:03:30 PM »
Difference is, we know in advance exactly what planes will appear, and exactly what their specs will be. So we can choose BAC over Dassault, because we know there'll be a better BAC model along soon, we know it will eventually double its initial range, and the Dassault will always be stuck with a practical range under 750 NM

Yes, we know which planes will come, and exactly what features will they have, but that's another simulation shortcome...


In reality, manufacturers react to the industry.. big players in the industry kept developing planes, because their models sold well...

In AWS, if Airbus could not sell a single a300 or a320 in it's first years, it won't matter, we all know A330 and A380 will follow no matter what... in the real world, if nobody would have bought A300/310 and a320, airbus would have cease to exist...


Also, airlines in RL do actually know which plane will come in each manufacturer... Manufacturers even design their planes with airlines needs in mind, and in close cooperation...

just some examples:

Quote
The Boeing 727 design was a compromise between United Airlines, American Airlines, and Eastern Air Lines requirements for a jet airliner to serve smaller cities with shorter runways and fewer passengers.[3] United Airlines wanted a four-engined aircraft for its flights to high-altitude airports, especially its hub at Stapleton International Airport at Denver, Colorado.[3] American, which was operating the four-engined Boeing 707 and Boeing 720, wanted a twin-engined aircraft for efficiency. Eastern wanted a third engine for its overwater flights to the Caribbean, since at that time twin-engined commercial flights were limited by regulations to routes with 60-minute maximum flying time to an airport (see ETOPS/LROPS). Eventually the airlines agreed on a trijet.

Quote
The airlines were not satisfied, and Airbus committed €4 billion to a new airliner design.[10] The original version of the A350 superficially resembled the A330 due to its common fuselage cross-section and assembly


So, I think it's totally possible for an airline in the real world, to know, or even to influence in the next plane a manufacturer will design, so it wouldn't be bad at all in AWS to know exactly wich plane will come in which line and take advantage of that, since we can't simulate the influence the airlines have in manufacturers to make the planes they want...


EDIT: read this one also...

Quote
After the launch, sales of the A300 were weak for some years, with most orders going to airlines that had an obligation to favor the domestically made product – notably Air France and Lufthansa. At one stage, Airbus had 16 "whitetail" A300s – completed but unsold aircraft – sitting on the tarmac.

Quote
In 1977, U.S. carrier Eastern Air Lines leased four A300s as an in-service trial. Frank Borman, ex-astronaut and the then CEO, was impressed that the A300 consumed 30% less fuel than his fleet of Tristars and then ordered 23 of the type (This order is often cited as the point at which Airbus came to be seen as a serious competitor to the large American aircraft-manufacturers Boeing and McDonnell Douglas). This was followed by an order from Pan Am. From then on, the A300 family sold well, eventually reaching a total of 878 delivered aircraft

Eastern Air Lines and Pan Am, don't exist in AWS, but there's a chance that without them, airbus would have not been what it is today, with all the following models...

Airlines influence manufacturers in RL... we don't in AWS...
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 10:10:24 PM by ezzeqiel »

 

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