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Author Topic: [-] Alliance Market Calls  (Read 869 times)

Offline Infinity

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[-] Alliance Market Calls
« on: March 06, 2013, 11:50:52 PM »
To add some depth into alliance game play, I propose to transform the market call function for players in an alliance.
Market calls update the used market for all players in the alliance, but the nmber of calls is lower than all individuals added up, say one call per alliance member, to make up for the alliance wide visibility. Every individual member cannot use more than a set number of calls a week, say 7 to keep it in line with single players.
This is only a very raw sketch of what is in my mind, let me know what you think about it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 02:32:54 PM by Sami »

Offline AUpilot77

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2013, 03:52:27 AM »
Alliances can already work together in that sense.  If one airline calls in, he can inform the alliance members that there are aircraft of their choice available and then each airline can call in if they so desire.  I like the idea though.. In my opinion we need more depth in the benefits of being a member of an alliance.

Offline pascaly

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2013, 08:19:31 AM »
I like it. The alliance needs more value and benefit. I'd like to see bulk purchase discounts as well, but maybe that is it's own thread.

Online Sami

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2018, 02:25:29 PM »
Bump for more comments? Possibly something like this:

a) Each player NOT in alliance will have 20 calls to the used market per MONTH [4-week period]. Previously was 7 every game week, making it 28/month. (Number is decreased slightly since game worlds are almost always 5-10mins faster now than before with standard rules.)

b) Players IN alliances will have alliance-pooled market calls. When ever some member calls to the market, others get the list updated too. Number of calls is based on number of members in alliance, each member adding 4 calls every per game month, but never more than 40, and not less than 20 calls/month (if there are only a couple members). Call made by alliance member will reduce the number in the total call pool.

(Making the calls monthly instead of weekly will probably eliminate part of the "need to wake up at 3am" anxiety. Since with weekly system you could refresh the market basically every 30 mins 24/7.)

Online Tha_Ape

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2018, 02:43:10 PM »
Bump for more comments? Possibly something like this:

a) Each player NOT in alliance will have 20 calls to the used market per MONTH [4-week period]. Previously was 7 every game week, making it 28/month. (Number is decreased slightly since game worlds are almost always 5-10mins faster now than before with standard rules.)

b) Players IN alliances will have alliance-pooled market calls. When ever some member calls to the market, others get the list updated too. Number of calls is based on number of members in alliance, each member adding 4 calls every per game month, but never more than 40, and not less than 20 calls/month (if there are only a couple members). Call made by alliance member will reduce the number in the total call pool.

(Making the calls monthly instead of weekly will probably eliminate part of the "need to wake up at 3am" anxiety. Since with weekly system you could refresh the market basically every 30 mins 24/7.)

Oh god I do not bump this proposal

-> insane advantage to alliances over lone players IF they coordinate
-> as they almost never coordinate completely, some silent members could burn the alliance's pool of tries in no time, and let the others nude in the cold with no tries (and they wouldn't even know that the market has been refreshed). Or they could just double-refresh without knowledge of each other's action :-\
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 02:46:27 PM by Tha_Ape »

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2018, 03:34:38 PM »
Itís a start in the right direction but it would need some refinement to stop rogue alliance members wasting the calls of others. Overall I like the monthly idea as it does stop that anxiety and makes allowances for players who log on once or twice a day.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline crayola

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2018, 03:52:08 PM »
I don't like these ideas, for broadly the same reason as Ape's second point.

You see, whilst alliances can co-ordinate market calls, and they certainly do, alliances are made up of more than just active skype/discord players. Elite Aliance for example usually operates 20-30 players, in early game worlds that can be above 30 sometimes.

Active players doing co-ordinated calls is never more than 5 players. It would be impossible to co-ordinate use of calls for an alliance when any random player logging on in the alliance can refresh at any time.

You give me the choice between 20 personal calls or 40 alliance calls, I'd rather not be in an alliance and have my own... the plan would kill alliances.

For clarification, I'm not fundamentally against the idea per-se, because I'm not married to an alliance. Bu if this was implements, I'd go solo.

A better solution Sami would be to  fragment the market a bit more. Rather than having one big market, have different phantom markets, maybe 4 separate ones that each player when they sign up for the game world is randomly assigned to, and they will see everything on that market (excluding private sales of course).

Something else I'd like to see under such a system is a  quicker frequency of planes built for AI brokers hitting the market.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 03:56:46 PM by yearofthecactus »

Online Tha_Ape

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2018, 04:03:54 PM »
Hey, actually I mentioned both possibilities, and completely agree with you:
 - that "impossible" coordination would make alliances overpowered (but it's unlikely to happen)
 - lack of coordination would empty the alliance pool of calls in no time, because most players aren't coordinating (and the coordinated members would get crazy and form their own alliance).

If there was to be some kind of alliance refresh, it would be a separate call, maybe one per week, and with a different button than the "classic" calls.

Cactus, about your different markets, it could be interesting (we don't have access to the same pool of planes), but I'm not sure. I wouldn't like to be enclosed in a necessarily smaller market with Elladan, Seven, JS, Schro and other such players (like the "death pool" in tournaments).

Offline schro

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2018, 04:30:12 PM »
I would much prefer to keep market calls as an individual effort rather than alliance based for many of the reasons mentioned by yearofthecactus.

Moving to a monthly basis may change the dynamic a bit, but it would also remove benefit from those that chose to work harder (by using all weekly calls throughout the game week). However, I can say for sure that I don't wake up at 3am to call the market, not do I put my fairly busy life in hold to call the market either, and I seem to do just fine when hunting planes during game starts.

Online Tha_Ape

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2018, 04:39:02 PM »
@ Schro

Didn't say you did. Just mentioned players that are usually pretty good for game starts ;)

Offline [ATA] Frimp

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2018, 11:10:47 PM »
I donít really like this idea of individual vs alliance calls

As mentioned already when alliances coordinate itís usually a few select number of people and having calls alliance wide would be disaster when new players join the alliances and donít know what they are doing.

If a change like this were implemented what you would likely see is that alliances would simply not be set up in the first few years until most have an established fleet and list of incoming ac orders.
It wouldnít change anything

An alternative solution could be to limit airlines to just obtain 1ac per game day, 3 per week from the Used market rather than 2/day, 3/week... this would mean that players would need to at least use 3 calls per week to max out and also when there is a drop it would leave more ac available to players since people would only get 1 instead of 2 in many occasions.. it could be that this 1 per game day kicks in when you have 30/40/50 ac and the old 2/day still applies when your fleet size is below this level.

Online Tha_Ape

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2018, 03:44:12 AM »
An alternative solution could be to limit airlines to just obtain 1ac per game day, 3 per week from the Used market rather than 2/day, 3/week...

I kind of like this idea, at least for early stages of the game (first 3 years?)

2 effects:
 - coordination within an alliance becomes more important (you will burn calls for less, so you will rely more on other's calls)
 - as coordination will never gather the whole alliance, more planes will slip away from those eyes and will land elsewhere (but elsewhere is also at your base, not always your competitor's one).

I would sure be heavily annoyed when it comes to me (1 vs 2 before), but I think it could spread the planes a little more.

Offline schro

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2018, 01:18:12 PM »
I kind of like this idea, at least for early stages of the game (first 3 years?)

2 effects:
 - coordination within an alliance becomes more important (you will burn calls for less, so you will rely more on other's calls)
 - as coordination will never gather the whole alliance, more planes will slip away from those eyes and will land elsewhere (but elsewhere is also at your base, not always your competitor's one).

I would sure be heavily annoyed when it comes to me (1 vs 2 before), but I think it could spread the planes a little more.

Yet, as a contrarian perspective, for those that only connect to look for planes occasionally it will prevent them from growing as quickly - if you can only check a few times per day, if you get lucky with the current system you can pick up 2 planes at a time. Advantage would tilt to those who can call on a more frequent basis compared to the current setup.

Online Tha_Ape

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2018, 01:30:16 PM »
Yet, as a contrarian perspective, for those that only connect to look for planes occasionally it will prevent them from growing as quickly - if you can only check a few times per day, if you get lucky with the current system you can pick up 2 planes at a time. Advantage would tilt to those who can call on a more frequent basis compared to the current setup.

Right, didn't thought of that. Strike it.

Online groundbum2

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2018, 09:22:55 PM »
simply say that a plane, new or old, cannot be sold to a fellow alliance/non-member unless the plane has been owned by the seller for 6 months. It'll dry up cash flow and stop alliances rigging the plane market. I say non-member as an alliance could keep one "member" outside the alliance and route sales via that person otherwise.

Simon

Offline schro

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2018, 10:27:10 PM »
simply say that a plane, new or old, cannot be sold to a fellow alliance/non-member unless the plane has been owned by the seller for 6 months. It'll dry up cash flow and stop alliances rigging the plane market. I say non-member as an alliance could keep one "member" outside the alliance and route sales via that person otherwise.

Simon

That doesn't solve the used market during early game years at all. Right now in gw4, all airlines are still cash poor and unable to buy for other players. This includes buying both new and used planes to sell. You will see some flipping happening, but those are all not restricted to alliance members for maximum profits.

Quite simply, as far as I can see and has been echoed in other threads, there's not much, if any, call coordination actually happening. At least not within Elite and several other alliances that have spoken up. It takes many people and an enormous amount of time to manage...

Offline Zombie Slayer

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2018, 10:41:46 PM »
simply say that a plane, new or old, cannot be sold to a fellow alliance/non-member unless the plane has been owned by the seller for 6 months. It'll dry up cash flow and stop alliances rigging the plane market. I say non-member as an alliance could keep one "member" outside the alliance and route sales via that person otherwise.

Simon

And to add to schro's post, without first creating relief for fleet transitions via some sort of easing of the 3 type rule restricting intra alliance sales will make the game virtually unplayable.
Co-founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
PacAir President and CEO
Designated "Tier 1" Opponent

Offline dandan

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2018, 05:19:09 AM »
how about more frequent, smaller releases of planes... instead of 50 new planes once, make it 5 new planes 10 times as often. that would make it more even as setting up call-groups would be less interesting.

Online gazzz0x2z

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2018, 07:40:17 AM »
simply say that a plane, new or old, cannot be sold to a fellow alliance/non-member unless the plane has been owned by the seller for 6 months.

As my friends say, it wouldn't work.

It would not have the intended effect : tension on the UM is at its maximum in the early years of a scenario, when the alliances have nearly no power.

It would hinder the biggest players, who would become unable to replace proper fleets without BKing. Replacing 350 airframes of the same kind is already annoying enough, but if you just have to pray on random brokers, you just can't plan your game. It's not interesting. When alliances get powerful enough to do this, there are enough independant brokers on the UM to feed medium-sized players without an alliance.

how about more frequent, smaller releases of planes... instead of 50 new planes once, make it 5 new planes 10 times as often. that would make it more even as setting up call-groups would be less interesting.

Much more interesting. Unless it's too consuming in terms of server power(I have no clue wether it's the cse), it seems a decent solution.

Online Sami

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Re: Alliance Market Calls
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2019, 02:32:49 PM »
Decision not to add this feature to avoid unnecessary rules/complexity.

 

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