RL Pilot's life and career

[sergio]

on eurocontrol webapage they offer atc training. did not find price and age limit. in usa - 30 years max.
if i pass the tests - is everything bright and shiny? aand 2k EUR after graduation in UIR?
or - expencive living for 2,5 years of studies? (damn, if for 2,5 years i can have a PART TIME job to support me - why stduy ))) )

[Infinity]

if i pass the tests - is everything bright and shiny?

Yes, until they impose Single European Sky and around 40-50% of controllers become obsolete.

[sergio]

Yes, until they impose Single European Sky and around 40-50% of controllers become obsolete.

understood, thank you.
oh no, 25,0 years old deadline. and i am 29,8.
to usa - also late in 0,2 years.

40-50% - that is UIR only, right? tracon guys should remain?

[Nlgravity]

To put things in perspective, financially, in the UK pilots have now become the highest paid job in the country (despite Euro crisis). This means average salary is even above that of CEO.

I'm going to have to question your source on that one. This is complete bs

[alexgv1]

I'm going to have to question your source on that one. This is complete bs

Hi, thanks for your kind post. I read it in The Mirror last year.

[Infinity]

Things you read in a tabloid...













... are almost never true.

[alexgv1]

Things you read in a tabloid...













... are almost never true.

s***, you telling me the Iraq war was a ruse?

[FORSBERC]

As far as the United States, the airline industry is actually picking up considerably. The regional airlines are ALL needing pilots and the majority of them are creating gateway programs. These gateway programs are actually hiring current university students (well before they have even their commercial certificate) and paying them while they are in college. They even get flight benefits.

With the mandatory retirement exodus here in the states at the major "legacy" airlines, there is a LOT of movement in the industry. And to put it simply, there are not as many qualified candidates than there were even 10 years ago. Because the supply of pilots is going down, while the demand is increasing, the wages and quality of life is going to need to increase in order to attract more pilots to certain companies.

I work as a CFI-I at a flight school and we are constantly hiring large classes of new hires in order to make up for the large amounts of instructors leaving for regional airline jobs.

While I worked at United Airlines a year and half ago, they were talking about loosing over 1,000 pilots a year. One year (I don't remember which one) had more than 2,000 pilots leaving. And these are only forced retirements, so they don't include voluntary retirements. With in 10 years, something like 80-90% of the pilots at United Airlines will be forced to retire due to age. (If I remember correctly, these numbers included both COA and UAL). And these are only UAL numbers!

The industry is certainly looking much brighter here in the states than 10 years ago. Also, don't forget Asian airlines. There is a huge demand for pilots out there because their (relatively) new airline industry is exploding. And many Asian nations don't have enough local pilots to satisfy demand, so they need to hire foreign pilots.

As the saying goes, a pilot's office has the best view! Best of luck to every aspiring pilot out there!

Zoom
CFI-I, CSEL, CMEL

[Jetsetter]

As far as the United States, the airline industry is actually picking up considerably. The regional airlines are ALL needing pilots and the majority of them are creating gateway programs. These gateway programs are actually hiring current university students (well before they have even their commercial certificate) and paying them while they are in college. They even get flight benefits.

WTF airline is doing that? Because it isn't Mesa, Republic, Skywest, Chautauqua, American Eagle, Great Lakes, or Compass. The Cape Air/Expressjet/JetBlue setup isn't all that grand because you still have to be a CFI to qualify, and if you're building hours that way you'll have just as much hope at any of the others.

[FORSBERC]

I for sure know of Skywest and American Eagle. They both are a partnership style setup with various universities throughout the country.

Ameriflight has a pretty good pathway for CFIs to get hired into the right seat of a E120.

EDIT: Republic has also hired many CFIs to work as ground instructors for two years, while the CFIs continue to build their last few hundred hours (instructing at the local airport), while building seniority with the company. They fly right seat after two years.

[Infinity]

What a romantic thought  being in debt with a college loan AND a flight school loan. How can life get any better at a young age?

[FORSBERC]

What a romantic thought  being in debt with a college loan AND a flight school loan. How can life get any better at a young age?

I suspect that we will see airlines helping to pay for student flight training to encourage more trainees. Otherwise, the industry will run low on pilots at the current rate.

[Infinity]

Doubt it. America is full of un- or underemployed pilots, just like Europe. The only upside is that, unlike Europe, America now has new demand for at least some of them.

[Pilot Oatmeal]

Doubt it. America is full of un- or underemployed pilots, just like Europe. The only upside is that, unlike Europe, America now has new demand for at least some of them.

We will, we already are. BA, city jet, Fly be. All are doing some form of sponsorship for commercial pilots.   BA requires NO upfront payment if you meet their credit standards. So yes we will see airlines pay for flight training, and we already are seeing airlines paying for flight training.

[Infinity]

Please don't call flexicrew-type arrangements a sponsorship.

[EYguy]

No. That is a time long gone. Today, Lufthansa Captains top out at 210k € gross, and it is questionable whether somebody joining now will be able to enjoy this when it comes to it.

Hi, I have to disagree... I had the chance of meeting some top management personalities at DLH while writing my master thesis and they (all included, and also two chief pilots) told me that the top salary is 320.000€...

[FORSBERC]

Hi, I have to disagree... I had the chance of meeting some top management personalities at DLH while writing my master thesis and they (all included, and also two chief pilots) told me that the top salary is 320.000€...

And do not forget the free travel as well. Space available or not, it certainly does add up.

[Infinity]

Hi, I have to disagree... I had the chance of meeting some top management personalities at DLH while writing my master thesis and they (all included, and also two chief pilots) told me that the top salary is 320.000€...

3 possibilities here:
1) You mistook USD for EUR
2) You were told the salary of a senior captain who also has management duties, which is not the regular case
3) You were told the salary of captains just before there retirement, who are on very old contracts from when Lufthansa was still state owned. The salaries have eroded since, and justly so. A pilot starting today tops out at 210k gross, as I already pointed out.

And do not forget the free travel as well. Space available or not, it certainly does add up.

Staff at Lufthansa, be it Captain or else (the only thing that counts is the yellow staff ID and, when deciding who of all ID tickets gets to fly, seniority), don't fly for free. They fly for a set amount (confidential) of the regular published fare. A low amount, but as it is based on the regular published fare, it is not so much lower than a normally booked ticket say a month or so in advance.

[EYguy]

Saftfrucht, just talked to a friend of mine (Cpt on A330/340 at DLH, MUC based, Italian like me): he is also representative of pilots for "Cockpit" and he is grossing 250.000€/year gross with 18 yrs seniority... Are you sure you are not talking about guys flying A320? Btw, the base contract at LH has a 74 flight hrs/month base, and therefore as soon as you go above that threshold you start earning lot of ding ding. So that's probably why lot of pilots are flying around 80-85 hrs/month and grossing around 320.000€/year when they have more than 20 yrs seniority.

And talking about staff travel: ID 50 (there's a set amount of ticket of the "Saver" fare -not the lowest, but still affordable!) that is a confirmed ticket (no seniority) and ID 90 (90% off the same far as before, subject to availability)

Regards

[Infinity]

I am not sure if the ID-classifications have anything to do in a public forum, but that's just my personal opinion.

Are you sure you are not talking about guys flying A320?

Lufthansa's pay is only subject to seniority, it does not matter in the slightest which plane you fly (unlike most US carriers).

Btw, the base contract at LH has a 74 flight hrs/month base, and therefore as soon as you go above that threshold you start earning lot of ding ding. So that's probably why lot of pilots are flying around 80-85 hrs/month

It will be hard to find anyone flying 85 hours, monthly schedules at LH very rarely exceed 80.
Additional duty pay will also not make anyone earn +100k over the base salary, that's impossible. 250k at 18yrs seniority is not possible according to the CBA, as is 320k for max seniority.
So I expect he either earns an addon salary for management duties or wasn't entirely truthful.