Official: Romney a moron

[[ATA] - lilius]

Sorry if having guns is an issue to so many of you.   You can tell we misuse them as millions of blacks fled to the streets shooting ak 47s into the air celebrating Obama's victory. 

Europe has more civil unrest following a soccer match than the usa did following sandy.

Millions of blacks fled to the streets shooting ak47 into the air?

Im glad the hooligans are not legally armed to defend themselves against the other teams hooligans...

[swiftus27]

Sarcasm, sir.  We're not in a 3rd world country here where the discharge of a few clips is acceptable... People here didn't squeeze a few rounds into the sky.

[[ATA] - lilius]

Sarcasm, sir.  We're not in a 3rd world country here where the discharge of a few clips is acceptable... People here didn't squeeze a few rounds into the sky.

I actually believed it had happened but in some other part of the world though.

[Curse]

Germany had a severe flooding in 2002. Not a single case of looting. Case closed.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/hochwasser-statt-solidaritaet-sabotage-pluenderung-und-wucher-171201.html

http://www.thw-halver.de/02hochwasser.htm (STRG+F -> "Plünderer")


The police tried to fix that problem with a complete evacuation and, on other parts, with complete blockades.



Anyways, in my honest opinion it's simply stupid to compare a flooding in a very low populated part with a massive hurricane in a city that's bigger than the five biggest cities in Germany together.



To think "we" are "better" than Americans (or Indians or crab guys from Mars) is even more stupid. If that would be this whole forum would be in German and I would have a weekend datcha somewhere in the East.



However, I think you are just really bad informed and lack lots of knowledge like you thought there was "not a single case of looting". I'm sure you also think there's "not a single case of gun killing" or "not a single guy driving an useless Pickup/SUV" or "not a single fat man/woman" in Germany.

[swiftus27]

Thanks for the input, Curse... I can't read German so I can not read your links. 

And yes, massive flooding is definitely not a hurricane hitting the largest metropolitan area in the western world.   

[Curse]

It basically tells saftfruch was massively wrong.

[Infinity]

To think "we" are "better" than Americans (or Indians or crab guys from Mars) is even more stupid.

Where did I ever say that? I only tried to prove my point (or much rather, fact) that the American gun laws don't make the country safer. I exaggerated on that one point, for the simple reason that it is easier than searching for numerical evidence (which points my way, I will Romney-bet 10.000 bucks).

Don't want to compare Sandy to the Elbe flooding? No problem, compare it to Catrina.

[Curse]

As the United Kingdom made new and very strict gun laws end of the 90s the crime rate increased massively.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm


Maybe weapons don't make a country more safe, but they also don't make it less safe. And you and me have no right to make up "facts" on other people's cultures and laws.



Katrina and Elbflooding is still useless to compare. Much more water, direct oceanic access and more people involved. Including the back country damaged and flooded, while the biggest German city that was affected for a small amount (Dresden) still had the functional and good infrastructure.



You are wrong in at least two huge points. Time to show balls and accept it.

[Infinity]

I'm not wrong, I just don't have all day to search for links that prove my point, as you obviously do.

Again, I'm not convincing anyone here (nor would I if I did have links to all my statements) so I'm out of this. It just leads to nothing.

The only error I'm going to concede is my try to take a shortcut by exaggerating.

[Curse]

Forget that one:

Where did I ever say that?

You say their weapon laws suck, you say one of their candidates suck, you say there's cheating at the election and you told in Germany were no lootings while it's everywhere in the US.

It's ok to make points and nobody will take your opinion. But at least arguments should be involved, no anti-americanism. Yes, the USA are different to Germany. And I'm sure California is different to Washington and Texas and New Hampshire as well as I'm different to somebody from Hamburg or Berlin.
Comparing things in the US with things in Germany doesn't work. It's simply not the same country and what might work here must not work there, too. While, honestly, some points really don't work here, too.
Our gun laws are extremely restricted what leads to police officers getting fired or fined even if they fullfilled every regulation and simply made their job but had to shoot. Capital crimes rise, while the clearance rate decreases.

Our laws aren't better than the US ones, it's just a different system. And absolutely most people in Germany don't even know our laws.




Edit:

I'm not wrong, I just don't have all day to search for links that prove my point, as you obviously do.

Yeah, of course. FAZ as one of the best newspapers we have and THW as volunteer help organisations really are no trustful source and you would find lots of better sources that prove a totally contrary point.

You have time to play AirwaySim and post lots of long and wrong posts, but no time to make a 2 minutes Google search.


I fully understand that. You are important and just because of this you must more right than I or all the other guys here. Stupid me.

Again, I'm not convincing anyone here (nor would I if I did have links to all my statements) so I'm out of this. It just leads to nothing.

Running away because your "points" were proven wrong? Please change your country flag to France.

[swiftus27]

Please change your country flag to France.

Is that the all white one? 

[JumboShrimp]

Well here we go, like I said it was a random example. How about Type 1 diabetes, which can hit anyone of any lifestyle or age? Or Cancer? Or Parkinsons? Or MS? Or cerebal palsy? Or heart conditions? Any congenital disorder?

These will all cost money, a lot of money. A chronic disorder would seriously affect anyone on a normal wage. That's what social healthcare is for, to pay and help when life has kicked someone in the balls. That's why it should be part of the basics of any civilised nation.

And that frankly sick quote in the middle, "the recipients don't deserve the same exact care", that's just downright wrong. In every way, that makes me sick to my stomach. A little quote from the NHS constitution; "You have the right to access NHS services", that means anyone. Everyone is human and everyone deserves healthcare.

Type 2 diabetes is entirely self inflicted desease, and it is not from the big mac, but more from the fries and big gulp coke that comes with it.

Basically excessive carbohydrate intake causes Type 2 diabetes.  Governt prescription for "healthy" diet?  A high carb diet that will lead to diabetes in the entire population.  It used to take life time to acquire Type 2 diabetes.  Now there are teenagers with Type 2 diabetes...  How much will they cost over their lifetime?  And who will pay?

[JumboShrimp]

Seems we also pay more taxes than Americans, but that gives the state the possibility to take care of desaster security, such as building dikes,for example. Sorry, I have to mention that, but leaving a city like New York totally unsecured of high tides (although predicted for years),
is something that´s an American speciality ,too. Hamburg was diked in, London has a barrier, the whole Netherlands are diked.
You just can´t just let everything to private initiative. It´s a task for the state. He has to be funded for that.

Do you know what the biggest industry in NYC is?  It used to be financial industry.  Now it is government.  We have army of people taking money from people who work and giving it to people who don't work.  NYC is the most heavily taxed place in the US (with combination of federal, state, city taxes, plus sales taxes, fees etc).  And all this money is spent.  There is no money left for protection against storm surge.

[JumboShrimp]

2.) Claiming that half the people in this country pay no taxes is disingenuous.
That's only for Federal Income Tax, and does not include Social Security Taxes or Medicare Taxes.  Just because they have different names does not mean they aren't taxes.  Since the government doesn't actually segregate that revenue in any way the distinction is fairly meaningless, they are all federal taxes that fund the government.  If you include those the number that pay nothing is somewhere around 17% currently and was around 14% before the economy tanked.  If you are seriously arguing that the country is going bankrupt because we don't collect any taxes from the bottom 17% of income earners you obviously have no idea what the income distribution curve in this country looks like.  You could take all their money and no one would notice the difference in the federal budget.

Secondly even if you want to artificially limit it to the Federal Income Tax, the number has only been almost half during the last 2-3 years,  while we have had high unemployment, wages are depressed, and the government has implemented lots of temporary tax breaks.  It was around 40% before the economy tanked. 

You can't have it both ways.  You can't say that you are paying into the Social Security system and Medicare, to pay for YOUR OWN future benefit, that the future pension benefit is earned, and at the same time claim that you are paying into the system for general cost of government.  Either you can claim that
1. you deserve pension and medical benefit because you paid for it yourself
2. or that you are paying for the government and pension is a hand out (welfare).

Disingenuous thing is to claim credit for both.

As far as collecting taxes from everyone, 100% of working population, it would definitely make a huge difference in federal budget.  If everyone saw and felt the true cost of running the government, there would be a constituency for keeping government small, lean and thrifty.

But since half the population can vote itself benefits it will never have to pay for, the size of the government is exploding, and the governments (not just the US, but around the world) are mosly broke.

[JumboShrimp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWMxFGhgVuA

Nuff said.

That's your proof?

I have been a customer of Citibank for decades, and they were the pioneers of touch screen banking.  Maybe one out of 100 times I have come across a mis-aligned touch screen in the early days, before most other banks even had button based ATMs.  Is Citibank guilty of fraud?  Preventing me from logging into my account?

You either move to the next machine, or press slightly higher or lower on the touch screen to get your selection.  There is a visual feedback, just as it was on that particular touch screen, so that you know what is going on....

[brique]

Running away because your "points" were proven wrong? Please change your country flag to France.

Pardon?

How did the French get involved in this : keep the national stereotyping between the US and Germany please, where it started.

[Dave4468]

Type 2 diabetes is entirely self inflicted desease, and it is not from the big mac, but more from the fries and big gulp coke that comes with it.

Basically excessive carbohydrate intake causes Type 2 diabetes.  Governt prescription for "healthy" diet?  A high carb diet that will lead to diabetes in the entire population.  It used to take life time to acquire Type 2 diabetes.  Now there are teenagers with Type 2 diabetes...  How much will they cost over their lifetime?  And who will pay?

Well, it isn't totally. Type 2 can be caused by other things as well as general health. And if you kindly note above I referred to Type 1 diabetes. By the way, thanks for a brilliant example of what seems to be the US mentality, the government is trying to give everyone diabetes... 

Who will pay? Well in a civilised nation with social healthcare schemes, the state. Yes that does mean taking taxes but honestly, I'd rather have access to healthcare than a nicer car or bigger house.

[[ATA] - lilius]

Dr Curse. The evidence given by the gun lovers of UK investigation might not be the best argument. Its also very difficult to find reliable data to use for comparing the countries. However I do find it unlikely that you will shoot someone if you dont own a gun. Its less likely that it ends up in the wrong hands in the wrong time.

[Dave4468]

Gun crime is so incredibly rare in the UK it always gets in the news.

It is ridiculously hard to get hold of a gun. Shotguns are the easiest to get hold of but they still take a whole lot of paperwork, background checks, police interviews (I think) and all sorts. Rifles can be got, but they are even harder than shotguns and really restricted. For all rifles except .22 any sort of self loading mechanism is illegal, bolt action all the way and then they need to be stored in a very specific way which has to be inspected. Pistols are outright illegal except for muzzle loaded pistols and vets can carry them but then they can only hold 1 round I believe.

Even then starting pistols are illegal if they can be converted, air rifles are illegal if they are too powerful and BB guns are illegal if they are realistically painted.

[LemonButt]

Yes that does mean taking taxes but honestly, I'd rather have access to healthcare than a nicer car or bigger house.

Everyone in the US has healthcare access and there are laws on the books that keep hospitals from turning people away if they show up in the Emergency Room.  That is one of the big misconceptions about the entire healthcare debate in America--healthcare versus health insurance coverage.  Everyone has the former, but not everyone has the latter.