Forums (not only this, but in general)...

[Jona L.]

Hey, people!

This morning in German (mother language) lesson we talked about language-development and decay of language through "the texting generation" or "generation Facebook^©" (either are names for the generation of the currently 15-22 yr old persons).

In that discussion our teacher gave out a sheet with some SMS texts (the usual short forms: -A: Hw r u?   -B: gd, u?    -A: fine, thx! gtg 2 c mum, ttyl   -B: sure ttyl m8 cya // End of converstaion) and also an excerpt of a forum entry from a photo of "celebrity spotters". In that excerpt someone started a topic, and already named people that may not like it, but they should shut up. He said that he would have to explain largely and thus it would be a longer text.
Further more he described their role to be a moral watch for the celebs so that they can't act like whatsoever, but have to behave. Making some side notes about his person and job, saying: "At work I wear tie, office-guy, money-earning kind of thingy, you all do it." // excerpt ended it the middle of the post.

Anyhow, most of my classmates were shocked by that post, and shocked by the way he talked about his job seeming secondary to his forums.
Asides of the topic, I wasn't shocked at all, found this to be a normal forum post, maybe a bit too personal, but generally normal. Like postings here which start with "swiftus27 won't like it, but I'll write it anyways" (sorry, swiftus, but I could only think of you as you are so often of a contrary opinion to the general public of this forum. Not meant to insult you)
It seemed normal to me, that people write very enthusiastic about topics they like (alias us: writing about airlines, aircraft and economics)

Furthermore our discussion went on, that forums would less show the decay of language than more the decay of society, and that people in forums must be deeply desperated, far off life and social contacts. I jumped in and asked what would be so wrong about posting enthusiastically in forums, and what of that would show a decay of society. I got bashed down by nearly all of the class, that I'd also be such a degraded desperate person...

I for myself feel pretty well, got normal friends, and also good friends (Some of which I met here, and we fly through half of Europe, just to see at least once a year.), thus thinking I AM "normal".

How would you see yourself? Do you think being very active (= > once a day reading what is unread and commenting in case you have sth. to comment) in forums is a bad thing, and shows that one is off society? Am I just feeling it the wrong way, or are my classmates wrong?


I'd be happy to get some input? - Which I'd be even happier to be allowed to give on to my class (of course anonymized) as reference to this being as normal as to call your grandma every once in a while...


cheers,
Jona L.

[Dave4468]

Well, from my view that is all just rubbish.

Being on a web forum does not make you depressed and out of touch with reality. I'm on here and several other forums, I post and read them several times a day. I have been a moderator on one for a period. By your teacher's/class view I should be a total shut in with no friends.

Well I am in my third year at uni, I live with my girlfriend of two and a half years, I have a decent group of friends dotted all over the UK and in my university, I go out to the pub with mates several times a week, I am chairman of a university society of 100 people. Doesn't sound like I am a social shut in.

(Feel free to use that as an example)

[[ATA] - lilius]

First of all I think "decay of language" is rather an evolution of language. Its actually amazing how people can talk about language development without seeing that our generation is also part of changing it. Languages are organic. And words are most of all depending on who is recieving them.

I also enjoy forums for discussions and to meet friends. It is a different kind of social networking but I understand that in a few cases some people are living a bit "shut in". I think if we use the forums the right way we can expand our horizons and learn alot from others but I think many times we are lacking "the real experience" and we get stuck on meta level. I constantly try to convince people that real life beats 3-d blue ray 60 inch LED anyday. Dont buy the movie when you can live it

Unfortunately surround systems and subwoofers serves as evidence that noone really gives a damn about what I say....

[swiftus27]

I'm sorry, why am I involved here?  Sorry, a few people caused me to be very active 6 months ago.  I have been pretty silent the past three.  There is a good reason.  Those people who took it upon themselves to cause a rift in this game's community...  They're gone.  Also, there are tons more people online here that have picked up in helping out other players.  There is no need for me.  I'm poking in my head from time to time.  I am happy to see the players here peacibly coexisting.   

I am not sure how this entire thread is relevant right now.  It seems like an attempt to stoke what I thought was a dead fire tied into some "decay of modern society" nonsense.  Let it go.  The forums of was is not the venue to go all Socratic.

I some way, your comments are flattering.  What you're saying, in short, is that I generally speak for the good of the board/sim.   So... Thanks!    I've always had the betterment of this sim at heart from day one.   Sorry, if you feel differently.

[Jona L.]

I'm sorry, why am I involved here?  Sorry, a few people caused me to be very active 6 months ago.  I have been pretty silent the past three.  There is a good reason.  Those people who took it upon themselves to cause a rift in this game's community...  They're gone.  Also, there are tons more people online here that have picked up in helping out other players.  There is no need for me.  I'm poking in my head from time to time.  I am happy to see the players here peacibly coexisting.

I am not sure how this entire thread is relevant right now.  It seems like an attempt to stoke what I thought was a dead fire tied into some "decay of modern society" nonsense.  Let it go.  The forums of was is not the venue to go all Socratic.

I some way, your comments are flattering.  What you're saying, in short, is that I generally speak for the good of the board/sim.   So... Thanks!    I've always had the betterment of this sim at heart from day one.   Sorry, if you feel differently.

errrm... WHAT?!

I just used your name as an example, because I simply couldn't think of anyone else without having to think for a while.
As I said, not meant to insult you, I just used you as an EXAMPLE. If you wish me to remove your name from the post, just tell me to, I will do that. Actually I was about to write you a PM to apologize for our past "problems" but it seems these problems are not "past" at all. I know I am the one who first named anyone, but again: It was meant as an EXAMPLE. It was neither to drag your name into negativeness, nor to connect it to the decay of language.

Well, it isn't relevant at all (thus the location in the "Off Topic"-forum ( ). We just had that topic in German lesson and I wanted to see, if I was the only one feeling insulted by the way the discussion (and my teacher's sources) went. It was just out of personal interest.

Your last paragraph seems converse to the first. In the beginning you feel insulted, and in the end you feel flattered?!
Anyhow, I think (without any deeper analysis) that this shows the ambivalence of our "relationship". On the one hand I really appreciate you as a discussion partner, and the other hand we are something like archenemies on the forums. I really like the either sides, the discussions and our "fights", but in the end this is just childish (which is positive in some way as well).

Anyhow, as said previously, I didn't mean to offend you with naming you, nor did I want to praise you


cheers and a good night,
Jona L.

[[ATA] - lilius]

way to invite a thread-hijacker 

I think the language topic is interesting. It reminds alot of the "the music was always better in the fifties" or "we had so much more fun when we were 17" or another classic "things were so much better when they were not made in china". The warm and cosy nostalgia. Always there for you!

[swiftus27]

Never said, nor inferred that I was insulted.  I just don't know why I was being used as the board's superego.  But, by you or anyone who thinks that flatter me.   

[Neotion]

Furthermore our discussion went on, that forums would less show the decay of language than more the decay of society, and that people in forums must be deeply desperated, far off life and social contacts. I jumped in and asked what would be so wrong about posting enthusiastically in forums, and what of that would show a decay of society. I got bashed down by nearly all of the class, that I'd also be such a degraded desperate person...

Granted, the increased anonymity on some internet forums leads to some of the most disgusting, distasteful and just plain rude discussions I have ever seen in my life. This should not, however, lead us to generalize the entire concept of the forum. Because basically they have just concluded that around one billion people -- in other words, one sixth of the world's population -- must be desperate, lonely and "far off life" persons. Interesting.

Why do I think that? Because in my view, you can think of a forum as a form of social media. It is a place on the internet where people share thoughts and connect with each other. Thing is, therefore, Facebook and (maybe less so) Twitter are very much the same. Writing a wall post on Facebook for others to comment on it, will engage people into infinitely varying discussions and topics - all on the internet, with individuals you may or may not be directly familiar with. Again, this is pretty much exactly what happens on forums, like those on AirwaySim.

So, last time I checked - just combining Facebook and Twitter alone accounts for over one billion users.. By their logic, I suppose that's one hell of a lot of lonely people on this planet, then.

[alexgv1]

Apparently a lot of players on AWS have "real lives" and that's why certain people bankrupt so much...   

[alexgv1]

Well, from my view that is all just rubbish.

Being on a web forum does not make you depressed and out of touch with reality. I'm on here and several other forums, I post and read them several times a day. I have been a moderator on one for a period. By your teacher's/class view I should be a total shut in with no friends.

Well I am in my third year at uni, I live with my girlfriend of two and a half years, I have a decent group of friends dotted all over the UK and in my university, I go out to the pub with mates several times a week, I am chairman of a university society of 100 people. Doesn't sound like I am a social shut in.

(Feel free to use that as an example)

Sorry but to me this sounds like the typical Internet "geek/nerd's" denial to me, of course I don't know you so I can only say what I perceive. And I say this without prejudice, being considered one myself.

Like you, I am a lot of things, also in third year uni studying aerospace engineering, work as a builder, bouncer and security officer, also mixed friends and some social life when I'm not working although admittedly am single. But I still spend a lot of time on here so I must be an internet geek, I have always enjoyed CS:S, forums and online "socialising".

However I don't see how this is any worse that all of these teenage girls spending all hours of the day posting verbal diarrhoea on Facebook. At least here it is mainly constructive discussion even if we have some smalltalk and a laugh now and again. And yet someone following a passion in aviation is a "nerd".

[d2031k]

Having been somewhat absent from AWS the last few months, this thread/post really caught my eye on returning to catch up on things.

AWS is the only forum community I have ever been really active in and feel confident enough to post/speak in, as I know the vast majority on AWS share a common interest of aviation.  For me the forum for a while did become like a YouTube or Facebook discussion, which generally end up in slagging matches because no-one knows each other and so there is no responsibility for words said/actions, but now this has been eradicated the AWS and alliance forums are a mini-community and so the forum becomes as addictive as the sim.

As I have not been properly active for some months, it takes some catching up to see what the users main issues are on the site, but returning to the original post, in terms of language degradation and decay of language capabilities, the AWS forum contains a huge number of considered and well constructed posts that I feel really distinguish the forum from many others.  It's that kind of feel you get when you enter a specialist shop, like a model shop or for me my local musical instrument shop as people have huge amounts of information and knowledge to pass on about a specialist subject.

I do feel though to seek the greatest benefit from AWS, the amount of time you have to dedicate in order to be fully abreast of everything on the forum and with your airline, does prohibit certain 'real life' activities.  As is evident in my stats, I have spend over 3.5 months logged into AWS since January 2009 and so have seen both sides of being completely and utterly engrossed in AWS to being completely out of it and yet I could not agree more with Alex (above) in that the forum is at least a place of (mainly) decent thoughtful conversation that, if anything, enriches our language capabilities.

[Dave4468]

Sorry but to me this sounds like the typical Internet "geek/nerd's" denial to me, of course I don't know you so I can only say what I perceive. And I say this without prejudice, being considered one myself.

Like you, I am a lot of things, also in third year uni studying aerospace engineering, work as a builder, bouncer and security officer, also mixed friends and some social life when I'm not working although admittedly am single. But I still spend a lot of time on here so I must be an internet geek, I have always enjoyed CS:S, forums and online "socialising".

I wouldn't call myself an internet geek. Yes I spend time online on various forums and gaming but I do that as well as the rest of my life. Using things online doesn't make you an internet geek otherwise pretty much the whole of the western world are internet geeks. If I spent all my time online and my only friends were people I met on WoW and all I could think about was online things then maybe I'd say internet geek, but not now.

[alexgv1]

To be fair the lat guy I met in denial was playing WOW so you probably got a point there 

Building on Daveos point, I would go as far as to say that forums improved my English. I used to type quite chavvy but then I learnt netiquette on another forum. Now I have the correct grammar and use long words. Plus some posts contain proper well thought out paragraphs. It helps me think before I say something.

[Jona L.]

Building on Daveos point, I would go as far as to say that forums improved my English. I used to type quite chavvy but then I learnt netiquette on another forum. Now I have the correct grammar and use long words. Plus some posts contain proper well thought out paragraphs. It helps me think before I say something.

For me I must say, as English is not my mother tongue and I learnt all of it in school, when I came here, I had rough guesses on what the things like "scheduling" and such meant, but never actually knew about these things. I used to be a grade "C" (German "3"; general: 65%) student in English but after getting into this, and talking on Skype© with friends (such as alexgv1 and lilius and many others) my knowledge of the English language have well improved and by now I succeed over my father's English, whom is a press spokesman for an international company, and has to talk to press agencies and offices around the world (in English of course). I consider my English to be superior to most of my classmates (except those who had been a year abroad to English-speaking countries), and am now a grade A- (1- / 95%) student in English.

Backside of the medal: My German writing decreased and often when stating on questions/topics in school I find myself talking English, to the confusion of students and teachers... even in German lessons I do so

Anyhow, for me this was like subliminar teaching while having fun

[swiftus27]

so, sorry if my initial response to this post was negative.  I initially thought that the OP's intention was to draw me into another forum fight.  I was incorrect and need to apologize.   I feel flattered that anyone would even view me as a board's conscience.

I have always been for a friendly community here in AWS.  Anyone tipping the boat will not be tolerated.  Forum bullies are not tolerated.  I get defensive as many people have helped make this a very inclusive environment.  I aim to keep it that way.   

As for your English, most of you converse quite well.  I would advise against the use of larger words.  Most Americans don't know them as advanced vocab is sadly not being taught as much as it should.   Luckily, those playing this sim will probably score higher as this is an intellectual sim.  

[Jona L.]

As for your English, most of you converse quite well.  I would advise against the use of larger words.  Most Americans don't know them as advanced vocab is sadly not being taught as much as it should.   Luckily, those playing this sim will probably score higher as this is an intellectual sim.  

Well, I prefer using more complicated words, as that sounds smart . Anyhow, I (and all German students) get taught in British English ("Oxford English") as to the secondary reason for the longer words. What makes me (as a European) sad is, that most English-speaking people don't understand the Latin origin of most of their "complicated" words, which hurts me when I hear some of those pronunciations, and thus often don't understand the usage of the actual Latin term instead of their English alternations...


Apology accepted, John

cheers,
Jona L.

[alexgv1]

The standards of people speaking English as a second language is excellent and a real testament to the education system and their personal studies.

However there are always funny exceptions. I will never forget a polish guy called Woo on another forum saying "you can thrust me" instead of "you can trust me" 

[JumboShrimp]

Well, I prefer using more complicated words, as that sounds smart . Anyhow, I (and all German students) get taught in British English ("Oxford English") as to the secondary reason for the longer words. What makes me (as a European) sad is, that most English-speaking people don't understand the Latin origin of most of their "complicated" words, which hurts me when I hear some of those pronunciations, and thus often don't understand the usage of the actual Latin term instead of their English alternations...

Apology accepted, John

cheers,
Jona L.

America is a big country, with huge differences in schools etc.  Both of my kids study Latin since 5th grade.  But that is exception, rather than a rule...

[swiftus27]

English is not a romance language with the latin roots.   It is a bastardized language with tons of roots and words stolen from every other language out there.  Yes, many of the words are from the romance languages and a touch of German.    English doesn't have the crazy (and I am not saying that harshly) word stack that Germans do.   English prefers its adjectives before the nouns in most cases.  This is why we have Burger King instead of Le Roi de Burger.  How English got Won't out of Will Not, I won't ever know.   

[alexgv1]

I studied Latin for 4 years and it really gave me an appreciation of my own language and vocabulary as well as learning the derivatives and meanings of words.