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Author Topic: [ok] Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of  (Read 1166 times)

Offline JJP

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[ok] Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of
« on: January 13, 2009, 03:33:36 PM »
Playing the demo game and starting Sim 1, I discovered a very odd means of calculating load factors: no matter the size of the plane, the airline will always be able to fill x% of the plane based on the company’s current image and route image (along with some other minor variables such as employee morale). 

This means that if I put a 30 passenger plane on a route or a 230 passenger plane on the same route, I will be able to fill the same percentage of seats.  For example, when starting out, I have load factors of ~50% for my new route.  With my 30 passenger plane, I can only manage to attract 15 passengers per flight.  Magically, if I place a 230 passenger plane on the same route, I instantaneously somehow attract an additional 100 passengers per flight! 

This simply does not make sense to me.  If I can attract 115 passengers per flight with one plane, I should be able to fill a smaller plane.  Granted, some passengers prefer jets or larger aircraft, but this should be a minor factor.  Placing a larger aircraft on a route certainly should not allow your airline to magically attract 700% more passengers instantaneously!!

My suggestion would be to change load factors to percent of route demand.  Based on my competition, company image, route image, employee morale, plane condition, plane age, and possibly plane type (passengers like newer, fancier planes and prefer jets over props), ad campaigns, etc. I can attract x% of total route demand.

This has beautiful business consequences based in reality. 

If a route has a 1000 passenger daily demand, and my airline can attract only 10% of daily demand (it is a new airline after all), my airline’s demand is only 100 passengers per day.  That means if I lease a 200 passenger plane, I will only fill half of it for one flight!  Certainly that’s not a money maker.  If I lease a 50-seater, I can make 2 or 3 flights a day, fill my plane 70 – 99% each flight and start making a modest profit.

Such a model would force players to make wise business decisions instead of throwing a fat plane at a long route and hope it sticks.

As the load factor model stands now, I can’t hope to turn a profit with a smaller aircraft.  Why even have smaller aircraft in the game?

I hope some serious thought can be given to this suggestion, or at least explain why the decision was made to go with the current load factor model.

Thank you.


« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 02:20:16 AM by sami »

Jps

  • Former member
Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 03:50:35 PM »
I agree, the bigger airplanes are too dominating. Althoug, it ha sto be said, that they may be that also in real life, but I don't know...
However, this change could make companies thoroughly think what airplane they should get, as now you could make good (and at first even better) profit with smaller aircraft, which I think should be the way to go ( so not take the biggest plane already in the beginning, but having to wait a few years to have enough route image to make big airplanes profitable).
This could also keep more players interested for longer as there are more starting variations.

moxiepilot

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Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2009, 04:08:30 PM »
great suggestion

Online Sami

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Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2009, 09:49:09 PM »
The system does not count load factors. It counts how many passengers you can sell for your plane (that has xx pax) with the given 10-15 variables, load factor is just the final result, not the thing what we start to calculate in the first place. And it also already does calculate how many seats you can sell maximum.

So this sounds more or less like a bug or other error there. Have to take a look, it's probably related to the route startup phase and the model of the route image raising (that represent the fact that ppl do not know your airline or route when you start a new rte)..
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 10:29:07 PM by sami »

Offline JJP

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Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 01:02:46 AM »
Thank you for your response.

"The system does not count load factors. It counts how many passengers you can sell for your plane (that has xx pax) with the given 10-15 variables, load factor is just the final result, not the thing what we start to calculate in the first place."  I'm not suggesting you start by calculating a load factor, but calculate how many passengers you can sell period given the 10 - 15 variables.  Why should it matter if you have enough planes (or big enough planes) to meet the demand you've created for the route on your airline?  If through marketing and the other 10 - 15 variables I can create a demand for 100 passengers, why shouldn't I be rewarded for that?

Regardless of how it is calculated, though, the end result is as I describe. 

I tested it in the demo game.  I declared bankruptcy, started a new company with the same route.  Instead of Saab 340s, I tried DC-9-30s.  Just like magic I instantaneously got 55%+ load factor on my two aircraft.  Now, I'm up to 60%+ and only running $19,000 in the red overall (after all overhead).  With my other airline (in Sim 1), I have 61% - 66% load with a route image of 49 and company image of 49.  I have 5 Saab 340's all turning $5,500 - $8,000+ profit, but overall my costs have skyrocketed and I'm more in the red now than when I only had 2 aircraft.

Interesting.  Well, I'll know next time.

Thank you.


« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 01:09:02 AM by JJP »

Offline JJP

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Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 01:21:50 AM »
I'm sorry. I don't mean to be combative.  Thank you very much for considering looking into this matter.

jest

  • Former member
Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2009, 01:33:40 AM »
I have to agree with jjp on this because i noticed it myself.

joaocbm

  • Former member
Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2009, 06:39:42 PM »
Count me on this too.
I think if there is demand for a route, passengers will fly with the only available carrier no matter what the image is (more or less).
That would open the way to people who would like to focus on small hop flights and turboprops, for example. Or people who would like to benefit from transporting people from large airports to other airports.
I think this would be a tremendous improvement on this game!

Online Sami

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Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2009, 07:14:16 PM »
I think if there is demand for a route, passengers will fly with the only available carrier no matter what the image is (more or less).

That's not the issue here. When you open up a new route most of the people do not know about that. And that is why you cannot expect full planes as it takes time to market the route and get the people aware of that.

Jps

  • Former member
Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2009, 07:18:45 PM »
But, again, the issue is, that if they don't know, how can there be different amount of pax (and we are speaking of 10 or even 100s of passengers) depending on the size of the airplane? If it was about knowing the flight, then the same amount of people should become aware of the flight at certain time rate, and not so, that if you fly a bigger airplane, more people will instantly know about the route than if it was a smaller aircraft.
When you start a new route in real life, you advertize it, and the amount of people who see the add and wish to fly does not really depend on the type of the plane (ok, well, if it's a long route, then of course they want to make it fast with a jet, but this doesn't make that much of a difference, especially if the flight with turboprop already takes less than 2 hours).

Online Sami

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Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2009, 07:38:29 PM »
Yes, that is the actual problem or bug even what I'm dealing here right now.

Jps

  • Former member
Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2009, 08:10:15 PM »
Yes, that is the actual problem or bug even what I'm dealing here right now.
Good to know. Hope you get it corrected  :)

Offline JJP

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Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2009, 12:57:51 AM »
Yes, that is the actual problem or bug even what I'm dealing here right now.

Thanks, Sami.  I appreciate you looking into this.   :)

Kastor

  • Former member
Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2009, 02:07:39 AM »
Yes, i second the petition that JPP made and also thank Sami for taking closer attention to that.
That way I could reach 90% LF on a 19 seater Beechcraft and then throw a fat A300 and suddenly attract 230 passengers ? Yes, that has to be corrected and game will be more pleasent when I can make decisions more based on reality.

lavence737

  • Former member
Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2009, 06:20:49 AM »
This is the same problem i face....I thought adding ATR's would improve load% but seems like there is a standard load% for any type of plane u operate,be it big or small....

lavence737

  • Former member
Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2009, 12:08:27 PM »
Hey...I know this shud be in the bug thread..but since its here im saying wt i have to...I hope the load% demand is rectified soon as my ATR's all with 45% load are making losses for my company...I hope the load% is above 65% for ATR's...

deepblue501

  • Former member
Re: Make Load Factors a % of Route Demand instead of . . .
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2009, 03:52:08 PM »
agree 100%. It takes the pleasure out of trying to solve a not so high L/F route with e.g. an MD80 with a smaller plane like e.g. F28. You think you are being smart by putting a smaller plane cauz the L/F should then rise, but no...instead the number of your passengers drops.

This is indeed something that takes the realism out of scheduling, thanks for looking into it sami.

 

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