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Author Topic: International Route Scheduling Best Practices  (Read 3638 times)

Offline JJP

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2013, 10:31:31 PM »
I am resurrecting this thread because I am running into an issue I've never had before.  

Depending on which link I click on, I get two different reports for my flights.  I have received a monopoly warning for one of my routes, but when I scheduled the flights, they were just fine.  In fact, I currently still show two different schedules.  The link from my monopoly warning e-mail shows 2 flights overlapping on the same day.  The "globe" link from my scheduling page shows only 1 flight per day.  Please see below for details.

Here is what Sanabas told me:
The first picture shows the outbound flight, and is fine.

The second picture shows the return flight, which is where the oversupply is.

 . . . and Sami basically told me "works as intended".

Here's my dilemma: when I am scheduling I see everything beautifully scheduled as in Pic 1.  I don't see Pic 2 until I get a warning.  So tell me, how I am to deal with this situation?  How is it resolved?  How do I gain access to the information in the second pic?  Why am I NOT given this information the first time around when I am scheduling?  Do I always have to be sure to have to manually perform "Route Planning" and schedule the flight from my destination just to view the proper scheduling?

This all does not make sense to me and seems to be completely not user friendly.  But, perhaps, since I am so inexperienced at this, I am missing some very obvious tools.  I would greatly appreciate if someone could enlighten me on this matter and give me some useful advice.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 11:14:29 PM by JJP »

Offline JJP

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2013, 10:36:10 PM »
One more thing: I just happened to notice that the passenger demand is back to my home base is less than the passenger demand to Chicago.  How come I do not receive this information when deciding to set up the route?  Obviously, I will always have a return flight.  Would it not be helpful to know the demand on the return flight as well when making your decision (I had always assumed it was the same)? 

Call me ignorant, but I am stunned to learn this.  How can you intelligently set up a flight when you do not have all the information?  Will I always have to perform a fake route planning from my destination just to view the return flight demand data?

Offline JJP

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2013, 10:54:12 PM »
I did some further investigating.  I opened all of my KORD flights in order to reschedule the offending ones.  After viewing these routes, I do not see any that are outbound from Chicago on the same day.  Below is my 7-day schedule.  Could someone please shed some light on this?


Offline JJP

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2013, 11:05:02 PM »
And my KORD departure schedule from another source:

As you can see, none of the flights leave KORD on the same day.


Offline Sanabas

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2013, 01:57:10 AM »
Here's my dilemma: when I am scheduling I see everything beautifully scheduled as in Pic 1.  I don't see Pic 2 until I get a warning.  So tell me, how I am to deal with this situation?  How is it resolved?  How do I gain access to the information in the second pic?  Why am I NOT given this information the first time around when I am scheduling?  Do I always have to be sure to have to manually perform "Route Planning" and schedule the flight from my destination just to view the proper scheduling?

This all does not make sense to me and seems to be completely not user friendly.  But, perhaps, since I am so inexperienced at this, I am missing some very obvious tools.  I would greatly appreciate if someone could enlighten me on this matter and give me some useful advice.

From the route planning page that you're being sent to by linking on the globe, or that you went to when opening the route, there is a link in the top right corner. You can even see it on your screenshot. On the chicago-tel aviv page, the one that is ok, there is a link that says 'route planning llbg-ord', that'll take you to the same flight in the oposite direction, the one that is violating the rules.

If you open the information on any particular route, there will be two globes. One for each direction.

Quote
One more thing: I just happened to notice that the passenger demand is back to my home base is less than the passenger demand to Chicago.  How come I do not receive this information when deciding to set up the route?  Obviously, I will always have a return flight.  Would it not be helpful to know the demand on the return flight as well when making your decision (I had always assumed it was the same)?

Call me ignorant, but I am stunned to learn this.  How can you intelligently set up a flight when you do not have all the information?  Will I always have to perform a fake route planning from my destination just to view the return flight demand data?

It is practically the same in most cases. It is in this case, too. 180 vs 190 is basically no difference, you could refresh both pages and then easily see 190 vs 180. I've never bothered to look at the return planning to check the demand when setting up routes, and never had a problem.

Quote
And my KORD departure schedule from another source:

As you can see, none of the flights leave KORD on the same day.

No, they don't. But the problem direction is Tel Aviv TO Chicago. Chicago to Tel Aviv is ok.

Quote
I did some further investigating.  I opened all of my KORD flights in order to reschedule the offending ones.  After viewing these routes, I do not see any that are outbound from Chicago on the same day.  Below is my 7-day schedule.  Could someone please shed some light on this?

Again, the problem is the flights outbound from Tel Aviv. And the first two routes you've listed both leave Tel Aviv on a Monday. The first returns on a Monday, the second returns on a Tuesday. Same deal for the final two flights, they both leave Tel Aviv on a Saturday. Which lines up perfectly with the first screenies, that Mon & Sat have 2 flights, Wed & Sun none. From your origianl post, I assumed you were based in ORD. But apparently you're actually in Tel Aviv, so it's actually the outbound flights that are the offending ones, you've lined up the return flights ok. Which is the first time I've seen that done.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 02:00:26 AM by Sanabas »

Offline Mr.HP

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2013, 07:32:05 AM »
This is why 7 day scheduling is the best method in general for LH

The method you're using, is based on [SC] knobbygb's suggestion, and that doesn't work with all routes (especially ones > 4000 nm, and have to pay extra attention to landing/departing time of the whole 7 flights. But it has some benefits: need 1 A/C to fill route under 4000 nm, and you can configure the exact seats for specific routes

Offline JJP

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2013, 11:34:28 AM »


No, they don't. But the problem direction is Tel Aviv TO Chicago. Chicago to Tel Aviv is ok.

Well, it's no wonder I didn't understand since I was told the exact opposite of this.  I was told the offending direction was Chicago to Tel Aviv.

Thank you for your help.

Offline JJP

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2013, 11:37:23 AM »
This is why 7 day scheduling is the best method in general for LH

The method you're using, is based on [SC] knobbygb's suggestion, and that doesn't work with all routes (especially ones > 4000 nm, and have to pay extra attention to landing/departing time of the whole 7 flights. But it has some benefits: need 1 A/C to fill route under 4000 nm, and you can configure the exact seats for specific routes

I guess I don't understand this answer.  I thought 7-day scheduling is simply having a different route (route number-scheduling only 1 day) for each day.  This is what I did.  Since I wanted to use good time slots, I used 2 different aircraft to fit the schedule in.  Perhaps you are referring to my departure times from LLBG overlapping.  This was not intentional.

Thanks for your help.

Offline JJP

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2013, 11:42:45 AM »
From the route planning page that you're being sent to by linking on the globe, or that you went to when opening the route, there is a link in the top right corner. You can even see it on your screenshot. On the chicago-tel aviv page, the one that is ok, there is a link that says 'route planning llbg-ord', that'll take you to the same flight in the oposite direction, the one that is violating the rules.

If you open the information on any particular route, there will be two globes. One for each direction.




This might sound stupid to all of you veterans, but this is a big revelation for me.  I kept wondering why I would get different views when clicking on the globe.  I thought both globes simply gave me the same information, and I would simply click one of them to give me the information I needed.  Obviously, I now know differently.  Thanks for your help.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2013, 02:24:15 PM »
No worries.

And yeah, 7 day scheduling requires a group of 7 planes. Instead of a 24 hour long schedule that the same plane flies every day, you make a 168 hour long schedule, plane A flies it starting on Monday, plane B flies it starting on Tuesday, plane G flies it starting on Sunday. End result is that each route in the 168 hour schedule gets flown once per day at the exact same time, and there's no danger of those accidental oversupplies.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2013, 03:46:59 PM »
I did some further investigating.  I opened all of my KORD flights in order to reschedule the offending ones.  After viewing these routes, I do not see any that are outbound from Chicago on the same day.  Below is my 7-day schedule.  Could someone please shed some light on this?



It is clear from your schedule that they are taking off on the same day.  You have several flights scheduled to leave the next day as the schedule pushes into the next morning versus leaving the same day you took off.  If you look at the days you bought slots for, it is pretty clear you are doubled up on some days.  If the return flight leaves at 23:55 it will take pax from the same day, but if you take off at 0:00 or later you are in a different day with a different pax pool.

If you click the globe to see demand, you'll see there is a ~95% accuracy or similar--the demand numbers are randomized and you won't get the same demand every time you click the globe, but an approximation from your route planning department.

Also, seven day scheduling DOES NOT require 7 planes.  You can start with one aircraft flying a single route seven days a week and start peeling off the routes as you get more aircraft if the ultimate plan is to have 7 planes.  You can also just use two planes if you have a long route and short route alternating that would be impossible to fit on one schedule (i.e. a 36 hour route and a 12 hour route).

In regards to your first screenshots, you cut off the actual flights at the bottom of that page that would show the oversupply source clear as day--you have multiple flights taking off on the same day.  You should be paying attention the time tables more than the bar charts as you also need to make sure you're scheduling flights far enough apart to count as separate flights in terms of frequency.

Offline Sanabas

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2013, 02:37:50 AM »
Also, seven day scheduling DOES NOT require 7 planes.  You can start with one aircraft flying a single route seven days a week and start peeling off the routes as you get more aircraft if the ultimate plan is to have 7 planes.  You can also just use two planes if you have a long route and short route alternating that would be impossible to fit on one schedule (i.e. a 36 hour route and a 12 hour route).

You can, but you'll only be flying the 36 hour route 6 times/week. And I'd call it a 2-day schedule. But yes, with less than 7 planes, you can still fly the same longhaul route at the same time once per day. It'll just be a much less efficient schedule, with plenty of unused time. Usually, when people talk in the forums about 7 day scheduling, it's safe to assume they mean groups of 7 planes, with each plane's schedule shifted 1 day forward. That's the key concept to get the hang of.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2013, 04:26:40 AM »
You can, but you'll only be flying the 36 hour route 6 times/week. And I'd call it a 2-day schedule. But yes, with less than 7 planes, you can still fly the same longhaul route at the same time once per day. It'll just be a much less efficient schedule, with plenty of unused time. Usually, when people talk in the forums about 7 day scheduling, it's safe to assume they mean groups of 7 planes, with each plane's schedule shifted 1 day forward. That's the key concept to get the hang of.

I think LemonButt is talking about phasing in the flights before you have full 7 aircraft....

Offline meiru

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Re: International Route Scheduling Best Practices
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2013, 08:10:34 PM »
I think, the 7-day scheduling is best for getting a high "plan time" what I call it (the time the aircraft has to do something, that includes flight, turnaround or a-check, so basicly everything except the gaps you were not able to fill or didn't want to fill). The other question is, how much flight time (or airborne time) you want to have... but this time can be adjusted by using different flight lengths for an aircraft. I think, the main question should be, how many hours and how many flights you have to have for a specific aircraft type to be profitable. In this question you also have to see, that if e.g. you fly all your 1h flights on one aircraft and all your 7h flights on another, you may get a huge amount of profit on one, but almost none on the other aircraft... and, I personally distribute the flights evenly. But, as I sayed... if my strategy is the right one (in my case it's flying MD80/90 with 14 flights a week and 16.3h airborne per day), that's an other question... maybe it would be bether not to fly the long routes, but... others do fly them with aircrafts of the same size, so ... I think you got the point  :laugh:

 

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