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Author Topic: Realistic game play  (Read 1509 times)

AlexL

  • Former member
Realistic game play
« on: March 12, 2011, 09:13:53 AM »
Hello folks,

Iīm so bored of those armchair CEOīs, who set up an airline and flying a low-medium demand route several times a day - at the same departure time. Itīs so unrealistic to offer your "passengers" two flights a day at the same time. I often had the feeling, that some people just play AWS to be the biggest airline (in financial and aircraft size view) in the game world, with no attitude for a realistic game play.

Any oppinions?

Best regards
Alex

Ilyushin

  • Former member
Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2011, 09:34:33 AM »
You obviously don't know the airline Transavia.com. Sometimes they have 6 flights to Faro all departing at the same time...

and I bet more airlines do it too.

AlexL

  • Former member
Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2011, 09:45:44 AM »
I know Transavia and in the summer months (during holidays), Air Berlin does it as well (i.e. DUS-PMI). But as you know, Faro and Palma de Mallorca are classic holiday destinations and these airlines just try to cover the demand in peak-times. Thatīs ok. But in AWS the most airlines intends to be a business carrier and in this case itīs just not realistic...

MidlandDeltic

  • Former member
Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2011, 11:52:55 AM »
It's a function of the way the demand model works I suspect.

In AWS, demand is assesed (and calculated) daily.  There is no transfer of pax from one day to another if you only run flights on certain days.  For example, in AWS Dublin - Orlando is shown as an average of 100 pax/day in DOTM at the moment.  This is 700/week.  In real life Aer Lingus schedule 2xA330 per week with reasonable loads, which matches.  However, if you do that in AWS you will run a half empty plane twice a week - and make a loss.

MD

Offline CVACEO

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  • Posts: 602
Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2011, 02:53:07 PM »
I agree with AlexL.  I think the game should give a load factor bonus to an airline for having a varied schedule to any given destination.  For instance, break a 24-hour day into 4 x 6-hour "day-segments": 23:00-05:00, 05:00-11:00, 11:00-17:00, 17:00-23:00.  For each segment an airline operates a flight to the same destination the game engine could give a 5% load factor bonus.  Cover all 4 segments and your airline would effectively get 20% more of the pax demand than a competitor flying the exact same number of seats with the exact same equipment, but all within a single day-segment.

But, whether or not AWS ever models that I will still create routes based upon a "realistic" schedule.  Like AlexL, I don't play AWS to "win", I play it for the fun of simulating running my own real-world airline.  I get a lot of satisfaction looking at the scheduled flights from my base airport and seeing a well-rounded offering of flights for my customers.  ;D

Offline schro

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Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2011, 03:41:50 PM »
Demand in the real world isn't always linear throughout the day. Depending on the origin and destination, it can be very lumpy.  Real world airlines never match the actual demand very well and people just deal with it if they need to get from point A to point B. Business travellers are more willing to deal with it to maintain or take advantage of their frequent flier status and will often take a less convinient flight to get a free F upgrade.

Lets take a recent ATL-GSO-ATL schedule as flown by Delta.

ATL-GSO
8:30AM-10:30 PM - CRJ200 every 80ish minutes
8PM swap a CRJ200 for an MD88

GSO-ATL
6am-6pm - CRJ every 80ish minutes
7am swap a CRJ200 for an MD88

So looking at that schedule, the route is strongly structured for people with GSO as their destination. As someone flying from there, it sucks trying to get flights on the late afternoon CRJ's as they're often sold out or fares are 2-3x higher than leaving on the morning MD-88.

If we go down the path of forcing any sort of timing model, I fear it will lead to too much frustration and micro management within the game, as with those extra controls, you've got to consider the ebb and flow of traffic in the course of a day which would simply get too complex.

palandar

  • Former member
Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2011, 04:37:05 PM »
Hello folks,

Iīm so bored of those armchair CEOīs, who set up an airline and flying a low-medium demand route several times a day - at the same departure time. Itīs so unrealistic to offer your "passengers" two flights a day at the same time. I often had the feeling, that some people just play AWS to be the biggest airline (in financial and aircraft size view) in the game world, with no attitude for a realistic game play.

Any oppinions?

Best regards
Alex

It's not their fault if the game engine doesn't make a difference between three flights departing in ten minutes and three evenly distributed flights throughout the day.

It's the demand model which is unrealistic in AWS, not those "armchair CEOs".

Offline knobbygb

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Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2011, 05:46:35 PM »
An easier change to make to the game logic would be to just not count flights departing at the same time as added frequency.  In my game right now I have someone sending seven ATR's to my base ALL at the same time. The fact that it's at 02:30 just adds insult to injury.  No rules broken but totally unrealistic. This adds nothing for the poor sleep-deprived passenger :'( and the logic could be built in to count this as what it actually is - a single frequency!  So - he could just change them to be 10 minutes apart but that extra work might at least discourage this schedule-copying and make it less likely.  My flights are nicely spread out and I'm more satisfied with my smaller proportion of the route and don't really care that I'm not 'winning'.  Despite moaning, still love the game so all's well really.

Offline mtnlion

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Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2011, 06:02:33 PM »
There are some routes where it is indeed realistic to have many flights departing at the same hour. They are mostly long-haul flights that have to depart at certain times because of the time difference between the origin and destination. F.e. the flights from US East coast to LHR usually depart at evening.

slither360

  • Former member
Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2011, 06:03:51 PM »
There are some routes where it is indeed realistic to have many flights departing at the same hour. They are mostly long-haul flights that have to depart at certain times because of the time difference between the origin and destination. F.e. the flights from US East coast to LHR usually depart at evening.

but even then, there is usually a 1-2 hr gap between departures

Offline mtnlion

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Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2011, 06:10:08 PM »
but even then, there is usually a 1-2 hr gap between departures
Yeah but in real life the slots are negotiable.  ;D

slither360

  • Former member
Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2011, 06:14:27 PM »
In this sim, it is harder to get multiple slots at the same time, so that doesn't really make sense.

Offline mtnlion

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Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2011, 06:21:03 PM »
In this sim, it is harder to get multiple slots at the same time, so that doesn't really make sense.

And that's why you try to capture them right away. When new game starts I always try to capture all the slots from 05:00am. Then I try to capture 05:05 slots and so on...
And if you want to succeed you have to secure some slots from the major airports as well. Put several planes to fly from 05:00am to LHR, CDG, FRA, JFK etc.

And this is just for the defense of those guys who have several flights at the same time to the same destination. I personally don't do it on short-haul routes, unless it's WB A/C doing some short haul flying between the long hauls.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 06:23:57 PM by mtnlion »

blair21088

  • Former member
Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2011, 08:19:56 AM »
I'm with the OP on this one there is a fine line between playing the game well and taking advantage of flaws in the engine. I don't understand the purpose of 'playing to win;' in this game since all you have to do to be a top 10 airline is start at one of the top 5 airports and just grab as many small aircraft as possible to take up slots that you will later convert to full size domestic or long haul planes. as long as you make enough to buy your next plane before the magical 4 month window runs out on the lease of the last one you are golden.

I just don't get how that is entertaining, but all the so called top players just do this every game world over and over again. Trying to beat players who choose to play this way is an exercise in futility

AlexL

  • Former member
Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2011, 10:26:57 AM »
But, whether or not AWS ever models that I will still create routes based upon a "realistic" schedule.  Like AlexL, I don't play AWS to "win", I play it for the fun of simulating running my own real-world airline.  I get a lot of satisfaction looking at the scheduled flights from my base airport and seeing a well-rounded offering of flights for my customers.  ;D

Correct. I do it the same way. And it makes fun. But if I see a player on a route with 300 Passengers a day, who have 2 flights with a Saab 340 leaving my base at 05 oīclock in the morning and arriving back in the evening is simply not realistic. But the fact, that it is "only" a Saab 340 aircraft will grant him a good load factor.

 
It's not their fault if the game engine doesn't make a difference between three flights departing in ten minutes and three evenly distributed flights throughout the day.

It's the demand model which is unrealistic in AWS, not those "armchair CEOs".

I think, it is their fault. Just because AWS allows these kind of schedules, nobody has to schedule aircraft in that way. AWS is a simulation and if we donīt simulate real world airlines, itīs just a "game". But I suppose, this is not, what Sami intends to provide.

I'm with the OP on this one there is a fine line between playing the game well and taking advantage of flaws in the engine. I don't understand the purpose of 'playing to win;' in this game since all you have to do to be a top 10 airline is start at one of the top 5 airports and just grab as many small aircraft as possible to take up slots that you will later convert to full size domestic or long haul planes. as long as you make enough to buy your next plane before the magical 4 month window runs out on the lease of the last one you are golden.

I just don't get how that is entertaining, but all the so called top players just do this every game world over and over again. Trying to beat players who choose to play this way is an exercise in futility

Absolutely right. I agree with you.

Offline Sami

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Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2011, 04:34:27 AM »
I think, it is their fault. Just because AWS allows these kind of schedules, nobody has to schedule aircraft in that way. AWS is a simulation and if we donīt simulate real world airlines, itīs just a "game". But I suppose, this is not, what Sami intends to provide.

IMHO, if the game allows something then the players are going to use it; realistic or not. So until it's checked by the game, I wouldn't mind since someone is bound to fly them with overlapping dep times.

palandar

  • Former member
Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2011, 02:51:02 PM »
I think, it is their fault. Just because AWS allows these kind of schedules, nobody has to schedule aircraft in that way. AWS is a simulation and if we donīt simulate real world airlines, itīs just a "game". But I suppose, this is not, what Sami intends to provide.

One should schedule aircrafts in the way he expects will maximize his returns, in the real world just as in AWS. If one doesn't get a penalty for scheduling aircrafts in that way as he would get in the real world, then it's the game engine which is failing to replicate the real world, not people scheduling aircrafts in that way.
I personally play AWS to get a taste of what building an airline in the real world is like. If the game engine fails to provide such an experience, it's not me the one who should make up for that.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 03:05:03 PM by palandar »

Offline DarkVenegance

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  • Posts: 19
Re: Realistic game play
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2011, 07:29:21 PM »
IMHO, if the game allows something then the players are going to use it; realistic or not. So until it's checked by the game, I wouldn't mind since someone is bound to fly them with overlapping dep times.
Idea: Change the variable "number of flights" in the LF calculation to "number of x-minute intervals with at least one flight". Makes multiple flights at the same time not useless (still provides capacity), but mitigates the frequency advantage.

 

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