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Author Topic: Seating config changes  (Read 1744 times)

Online Sami

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Seating config changes
« on: January 27, 2010, 01:07:23 AM »
To address a few small issues I am planning for some changes to the seat config system in the future..

At the same time it can be possible to add some more functionality to the system, so if you have any requests related to this please post them here now. As before - when the feature gets an update it will not be then re-updated for quite a while, so it's now or never type of chance  ;)

I will be adding seat pitches to the system.. I mean that is the base reason for update.

I'd like to hear especially comments on how to improve the user interface in the config tool.. if there is need for that..

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2010, 01:28:05 AM »
I'm assuming this means there will just be 1 type of seat for the YCF classes and then the pitch of the seat will determine the number of seats you can fit?  An option that would be nice to have is cloth or leather seats for the the Y seats with CF having leather being a given.

It would be nice if the config tool was just a 4x3 grid with the seats and by hovering over the picture of the seats you saw the description and then having the number of seats box right below the columns.  It is kind of a pain to scroll up/down to tally seats and see what you did previously in terms of seat number for each type when you can have it all on one screen.  Also, if there is some way to factor in existing seats, that would be nice.  For example, if you have a plane with 300 standard Y seats and change the config to 270 standard Y seats + 30 standard C seats, you shouldn't have to pay for 270 brand new Y seats, but rather just the 30 C seats.  You'd think there would be some sort of market for used airline seats also and be able to salvage some of the cost of reconfiguring by selling the 30 Y seats you're getting rid of.  Also, reconfiguring a plane shouldn't take a fixed number of days--it should depend on the change from the existing layout.

Since we are thinking long term, I think a "removable" seat option should be considered, which means a small per seat fee for installing a locking mechanism that holds the seats in, but makes them easy to remove.  The reason for this would be for cargo.  Airlines in Hawaii routinely fly passengers during the day, take all the seats out and ship cargo to the islands throughout the night and put the seats back in during the morning for passengers again.  Along with this comes mail :)  If a flight isn't full, most airlines will take on US mail (at least in the states) which they get compensated for and helps fill the plane/maximize revenues.

I'm not sure if it is modelled already or not, but people have gotten fatter over the years as well which means it takes more fuel to get our fat butts in the air and from point A to point B.  Passenger weights should increase over time :)


munipandita

  • Former member
Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2010, 04:35:46 AM »
1) We should be able to change the aircraft config without losing our already owned seats.

For example: I'm buying a Fokker 100 aircraft, and it has a 105Y seat config, but i want to add 10C (business class) seats.

To do that, actually, i must discard all my Y seats, and buy new ones.. thats a lot of money. I already have 105 seats that i wouldn't pay for them, so we cannot just discard the necessary number of Y seats to fit our 10C seats? And pay only the 10C seats, because i think the aircraft already has those 105Y.

2) And then the value of those seats discarded could be converted to buy those C seats, and the difference, paid..

Well, the #1 i believe it's important, the #2 is just an idea.

munipandita

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2010, 04:38:10 AM »
Quote
Also, if there is some way to factor in existing seats, that would be nice.  For example, if you have a plane with 300 standard Y seats and change the config to 270 standard Y seats + 30 standard C seats, you shouldn't have to pay for 270 brand new Y seats, but rather just the 30 C seats.  You'd think there would be some sort of market for used airline seats also and be able to salvage some of the cost of reconfiguring by selling the 30 Y seats you're getting rid of.  Also, reconfiguring a plane shouldn't take a fixed number of days--it should depend on the change from the existing layout.

Oh LemonButt, sorry, i didn't read carefully what you wrote.. this is exactly what i was thinking ;)

Yb

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2010, 07:27:56 AM »
If I could put my comment in:

a) The used market for seats is a nonsence if you ask me. I am really suprised to say this but this sounds redundant and how would you model wear and tear on these seats? Who would buy your seats?
If you want to model this the seats have to have some kind of percentage of their condition. Nobody is going to buy seats that has been used for dozens of years. So if you do this you can sell seats, buy seats and they can prove as a significant value on your aicraft - nobody likes to fly an airplane with seats thirty years old.
But I am not sure this will be possible to model as it is a lot of micromanagement (though it can be fun and have a good impact on the game - a) you wont loose your seats but b) you will have to change them from time to time with new ones).

B) If we are able to adjust the pitch I would still like to have some kind of types of seats (the same as now probably - there can be a lot of room but if the seat is crappy then the flying is no fun).
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 07:47:29 AM by Yb »

tofen

  • Former member
Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2010, 01:36:56 PM »
I don't want to have to many config options, as this would just course a lot of micro management.
The seat pitch idea is OK and maybe a leather vs. cloth option but not much more than that.

1 ) First thing I would like is a more user friendly interface to make the configs. The one we have today is a pain because you have to scroll up and down a lot of times to get it right.
Those checkbox options takes to much space, a dropdown menu for each class would be better and maybe a (i) icon to show the information for each seat.

2 ) An option to check the range of a specified plane before applying the config. I don't know how many times I have had to wast money on reconfiguring planes a second time because I added to many seats or chosen a to high MTOW increase because I tough I would need it with the amount of seats I was adding.
Maybe just a pop-up window saying "With this configuration, the new range of this plane will be XXXXnm. Accept/Cancel" when applying it to a plane.

3 ) As others already said, stop throwing out all the old seats every time we reconfigure a plane.
New seatcount - old seatcount, if the result is positive (more new seats of class than before) then take result * seatprice + workcost = Total cost of the reconfiguration.
Shouldn't be that hard?

Online Sami

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2010, 01:37:47 PM »
I'm assuming this means there will just be 1 type of seat for the YCF classes and then the pitch of the seat will determine the number of seats you can fit?

No, you can choose the seat type and seat pitch. Each seat type will have a minimum pitch, like 28" for the HD seat or 50" for some lux seat.

So you can add HD seats with 35" pitch to gain more comfort, like would be in early planes for example.


For user interface to eliminate scrolling - how about putting the C/F/Y classes to different tabs?

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2010, 02:01:13 PM »
The tab idea could work, assuming you could view all the seatcounts at one time, such as in the title of the tab.  Another idea would be just to have a slider with 2 sliders on it.  You could select what type of seat you want for each class and use the sliders to modify the size/percentage of the plane that is that class.  This way your plane always has the max number of seats and you can just adjust as you need to (Do people really reconfig without using the max number of seats?).

Also, not sure if people know this or not, but if you have a plane with 100 seats and 1000nm range and you schedule a route that is 1100nm, the system will not load the full 100 seats, but restrict it to whatever the payload vs range allows.  So if you reconfig and add too many seats, you shouldn't have to spend more money to re-reconfig things.  Most planes however, have sharp drop offs so your 100 seats at 1000nm might only be 30 seats at 1100nm.

As far as getting some sort of compensation for existing seats, there is a huge market for used mattresses as they are stripped down and the parts are all recycled with springs being melted down scrap metal, foam shredded up and used for insulation, etc.  There could just be a flat rate you could salvage from each chair, as most of them have a significant amount of metal and other recoverable materials.

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2010, 04:23:28 PM »
What about multiple seat types per class. So you cqan have something like 5 fares for your flight.

Say: 100 seats in Total.

5 = F
10 = C
20 = Y High density
45 = Y Standard
20 = Y comfort plus

Just a random example

Offline type45

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2010, 04:31:44 PM »
is that possible to give an indicator to tell how pax feel about the seat? Something just like the pax comfort we have now (bad, fair, good, excellent, etc), maybe this also can tell the welcomeness of pax on this kind of seat under different flight time and range

Offline powi

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2010, 04:06:49 PM »
Not essential:

Include seat weight to aircraft empty weight.

C/F PAX should weight more than Y when calculating TOW. (more baggage allowance)

Update fuel consumption calculation to use actual TOW :D

Offline Kazari

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2010, 05:16:35 PM »
I think all these ideas about the cloth and leather are nice. But I think the YCF works well. What would be helpful would be a number that we'd be able to get after doing all the combos to see how close to an ideal seat this is. And some explanation that maybe this seat would be good for x.x hours.

Also it would be useful to know how much each seat will generate for me. If I could plug in a price and a proposed load factor and have it calculate the best combination for me that would be nice. I currently do this in Excel. Each plane is different.

Online Sami

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2010, 06:18:01 PM »
Bit of a summary:

- Classes will be YCF, they are not changed. (these "economy extra" things are only the flavour of last 2-3 years, and only for some companies, so not an essential feature)

- changes to user interface
   * tabs   ...OR
   * some drag/drop thingy

- add seat pitch
   * add better "comfort index" to config screen

- old seats are always changed in a D check or overhauled in C check -> thus:
   * if seat type is unchanged, do not charge for them
   * if seat type is changed -> old seats thrown away -> no "seat market"

- range display already to config creation window instead of config assign window?  (lots of data though with various eng/weight combinations...)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 06:27:20 PM by sami »

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2010, 08:42:01 PM »
How about a seat image (using -100 to +100 scale like company image) similar to the passenger vs range?  A high density Y seat gets a high for short routes with a drop off in seat image as the flight time is extended.  The more upscale the seat, the slower the decline in seat image is as flights get longer.  The cheaper the seat, the greater the dropoff as people don't mind having zero legroom for a short hop, but sitting there like a sardine for a transatlantic flight taking 8 hours won't sit so well.  It should have a fairly large influence on company image also as an airline with an awesome marketing team that is always on time with crappy passenger comfort is still an undesirable airline to fly on.

EYguy

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2010, 06:37:21 PM »
I love the idea of Catita Bill about "not losing" the already installed seats... I think that if you have to take out some seats instead of all of them, it would be cheaper than changing the whole set up! :)
Im my opinion this feature could be readly implemented in the game without waiting for the V.1.2
I also agree with Otto... In real life we already have some airlines playing the game of differents seats with different pitch (as BA for Economny plus, KLM and some american airlines I do not remember...)
I think this should/could be postponed to the new game V.1.2.

clive.gardner

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2010, 08:03:45 PM »
A little off topic perhaps, but in a similar vein what are the chance of us getting an option to select the level of in-flight service (eg food/drinks provided or not on flights), and perhaps the provision and quality of inflight entertainment systems? Could give another us way to differentiate our airlines...

Clive


Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2010, 11:18:29 PM »
Like complimantary cup of tea and a sandwich on a AMS - LHR flight... or "play big spander for your drinks and snacks" on a LCC flight from AMS to LTN.  8)

"Why not buy our completley useless merchandises... like a UK Dreamlinks toy plane, a USB rocket louncher or a "Please fasten your seatbelts" sound app for your mobile device...   ;D
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 11:21:31 PM by Maarten Otto »

bwistle

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2010, 09:55:54 AM »
What about IFE, with something like 3 different levels of quality?

Offline lastchancer

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Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2010, 05:15:05 PM »
I think all these ideas about the cloth and leather are nice.

What about an option to have seats (or even cabin interieur) branded on your corporate identity, e.g. seats in your companies colours and your logo stitched on the head-rest. This would be more expensive but might effect CI and RI.

theguv316

  • Former member
Re: Seating config changes
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2010, 12:19:29 AM »
As a new player im totally hooked on this game ( well done Sami )  i would just like to see different pricing for the different
type of F seats like why put in suites on your long haul if you dont get more money for them or is it factored in already.

 

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