New Worlds

[edobarto]

Hi everybody! I'm an italian guy with a crush on this game. Anyway, I've recently talked to my Industrial Organization professor at the university and he joined this game in order to make a kind of "reserch" about the behaviour of player (kind of Nash Games).
So I suggested to Sami to open a new world as soon as the other worlds will end (matter of weeks) but with this features my professor suggested:
-no more than 2 airlines in a airport (in the real world there are seldom more than two airlines "nestled" in the same airport)
-all the world available to play (not as "Rise of modern airlines")
-no double legs routes (except for refuelling)
-limited numbers of players (300 should be enough)

What do you think about it? Anyone interested about this game?

For the timeline of the game, the usual 1992 to 2010/2011 would be nice (at least in my opinion)...

I'm waiting for your opinions/suggestions

[MattDell]

That sounds like perfection!  I'd be the first one to sign up!

Is sami on board?  Would there be a guarantee of only two airlines per airport?

-Matt

[Strider]

Sounds good to me!....I'd only make the game a little longer like add another 5 years. I like the long games

[edobarto]

I asked Sami about this "wish game" and he said that it must be discussed in the forum, then he will check how many people would like to play this game and see what happens.

Another hints I got this afternoon:
-implement UE "Open skies" regulation after 2008: so an italian airline could operate a flight from UK to USA (a classic 2 leg route, but it would be something real after 2008!)

For the "two airlines" limit... I think it has to be discussed with Sami but he wrote me we have first to get enough people to play this game. Then we can fix the limit and start playing. Moreover, I think that this game could be even more realistic thanks to the improvments added to the game engine in the last few months.

So, if you would like to play this game, please spread the word between your friends and see if we can get the numbers that Sami asked for!

[Sami]

What I meant that there are no exact plans for the next game world yet so please throw in ideas and requests...

[Dorito_25]

I like the idea - it's a regular sized game world and I'm glad you brought up the "no double leg routes" idea - they annoy the bunkers out of me!

[ReedME]

I'm in but perhaps a little less that 300 people?

[ponmania]

Good idea, edobarto. It would be very nice for the new world like that.
I'm looking for a new world to play because what we have now are all more than 50% process.

[cesarb]

I'm in but 300 people with a 2 airline per aiport limit... how about 200?

[edobarto]

Well... All the figures I gave you in my previous posts came from a kind of fast and "average" data mining... Two airlines are the average numbers of airlines you can find on big airports and it doesn't necessarely mean they're both big carriers as British Airways and Lufthansa based in the same airport...

So the 2 airlines/apo limit is just a suggestions about real world. Narita hosts both JAL and ANA, Heathrow is base for British Airways and Virgin Atlantic. But Chicago is the hub for United Airlines and not any other big carrier. 400 players would be too many, but 200 would be not enough, in my opinion... If you look on the net you can find a number of international airlines which is around 350... So, I think that 350 could be a nice population for the game. And remember: we're going to play on 6 continents!

The two legs route is not, in my opinion, impossibile: just make possible to load pax in realistic places. I mean: if I'm flying from Las Vegas to Dubai and I'm a USA based carrier, I can load pax only in NY, not in any other country. If I want to stop over in another location, I could only reful my a/c.

Timeline: I've read all of your suggestions: what about a 25 years span? Like from 1992 to 2017? I think that going too far with the end of the game would be a mess talking about prediction of fuel prices and pax demand!

[dwf78]

How about starting the game in the early eighties with the introduction of the 767/757 etc...

[edobarto]

Could be an idea... But do you agree with my idea of limiting the number of players to 1 for airport, max 300 players and so on?

[Yb]

If there are no multilegged routes then OK. But this should be introduced also with the new hub systems...

[edobarto]

I've to ask to Sami but I do not think it's a big problem... Maybe he has just to erase the related spot... But I've notrhing against a multi legged route if the stop over is for refuel... What do you think???

[ekaneti]

Hi everybody! I'm an italian guy with a crush on this game. Anyway, I've recently talked to my Industrial Organization professor at the university and he joined this game in order to make a kind of "reserch" about the behaviour of player (kind of Nash Games).
So I suggested to Sami to open a new world as soon as the other worlds will end (matter of weeks) but with this features my professor suggested:
-no more than 2 airlines in a airport (in the real world there are seldom more than two airlines "nestled" in the same airport)
-all the world available to play (not as "Rise of modern airlines")
-no double legs routes (except for refuelling)
-limited numbers of players (300 should be enough)

What do you think about it? Anyone interested about this game?

For the timeline of the game, the usual 1992 to 2010/2011 would be nice (at least in my opinion)...

I'm waiting for your opinions/suggestions

I greatly object to no double leg routes. Then all you have is a hub with a bunch of spokes. It is boring

[edobarto]

I know it's boring but it's reality... As I wrote in my previous post, I'm used to compete with other airlines from the same hub but in reality the situation is one or two major carrier from every hub: it's a matter of scale economies!
Except for very large hubs (say LHR), in other hubs you usually have 1 major carrier with maybe another carrier with regional routes. You have two big carriers only in airport as LHR, right?

[ReedME]

Actually in reality, Airlines do have separate Hubs although in reality they operate aircraft FROM the separate hubs rather than from main hub to second hub and beyond...

[Runner]

AMS has 4 airlines: KLM, transavia.com, Martinair and Arkefly. But you're right, in general there are two or maybe three airlines at one airport.

[Sami]

There is no intention in limiting the number of airlines at airports. As that is not done in reality either - in the countries with free market economy. It's ultimately the choice of the airline owner where to set up his firm. Airports can set restrictions based on number of available slots (or apron / hangar capacity) but I'm sure no airport would deny a new entrant "because we already have three others here".


(And LHR has 3 main carriers too by the way. And Gatwick is a main hub for 8 airlines according to Wiki...)


For the number of airlines in the world. It is closer to 1000-3000 than 200-400. It depends on how they are counted, but there are around 6000 IATA airline designators at least (though this includes also some that are clearly not airlines). So the player numbers in AWS worlds are low.

[Riger]

Sami,

Perhaps a dimension which may make the game interesting is for a player to declare themselves as either a domestic operator or an international operator (not both) at the beginning of the game.  For many countries , domestic is not viable, but there are many that would entirely support a domestic market.  This would prevent the big boys from overtaking the market inside a country but still provide access to the country via international connections.  This may be very good for alliance purposes, where an international company partners with domestic airlines.

Could that fly ?

Best Regards

Richard