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Author Topic: Note to DC-8 users  (Read 1977 times)

Offline Sami

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Note to DC-8 users
« on: May 23, 2009, 03:38:18 PM »
A bug in fuel usage of DC-8 was discovered.. Please re-schedule the routes to save some money ;)

http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,9461.msg40404.html#msg40404

Offline MM21

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Re: Note to DC-8 users
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2009, 06:05:08 PM »
 :( I currently operating 7 DC-8 of 11 aircraft ..... and I believe that I got my bankruptcy warning because of these DC-8s.
Although I have already re-scheduled those DC-8's routes...I'm still worrying my airlines will be taken over by the bank if my profit doesn't come back to normal.

Thx

Offline Sigma

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Re: Note to DC-8 users
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2009, 06:24:40 PM »
I doubt the difference was enough to make or break an airline unless they depended heavily on these.

On the case where the bug was reported, it made a difference of $14,000 a week with the plane.  If you had 7 of them you're talking about $100K/week which, while nothing to sneeze at, isn't going to drive an airline into bankruptcy unless they were very small.  If $100K/week is the difference between making and breaking you, you were going to go at some point soon anyhow, as fuel prices still have a long way to go.

juanchopancho

  • Former member
Re: Note to DC-8 users
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2009, 06:30:59 PM »
Fuel prices are through the roof as it is so good luck with the gas guzzlers.

stefan.aj@hotmail.com

  • Former member
Re: Note to DC-8 users
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2009, 01:57:49 PM »
It made a difference of 14 000 USD on each flight, so it is a considerable amount of money if you have based your ops on DC8's.

But my airline is loaded with money, so I'm fine:D

Online type45

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Re: Note to DC-8 users
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2009, 04:00:23 PM »
I doubt the difference was enough to make or break an airline unless they depended heavily on these.

On the case where the bug was reported, it made a difference of $14,000 a week with the plane.  If you had 7 of them you're talking about $100K/week which, while nothing to sneeze at, isn't going to drive an airline into bankruptcy unless they were very small.  If $100K/week is the difference between making and breaking you, you were going to go at some point soon anyhow, as fuel prices still have a long way to go.
Maybe let me say something. He's my friend and we are in the same alliance. He also told me his situation and give me some data about this.

In his case, he is depended heavily on these. He's located at jet age 2 S. America (SAEZ), TJSJ is only a point for tech. stop, so if we use that set of data from the case where the bug was reported, the number used to find out how much the bug effected should be $14000*4=$56000 each plane, or $56000*7=$392000 for 7 planes every week. The number should be bigger as he also use those DC-8 for some shorter routes. From the data I get from him, that's more-or-less the same number he's losing now.

Here let see something real. He gives me the weekly estimated financial overview of one of his Douglas DC-8-42, at the fuel price USD 137. This plane is flying 1 long-hual (SAEZ-via SVMI-KJFK)and 5 "short"-hual distanation of distanced from about 8XX-27XX. All routes are not adjusted when the data is recored. Except for one, all of them have a L/F of more than 85%, most of them are 90% or more. Here's the belance:

Sold tickets  579 007 USD  
Line maintenance (A+B)  -31 123 USD  
Insurance  -765 USD  
Fuel cost  -315 471 USD  
Route fees  -79 554 USD  
Weekly leasing cost  -31 076 USD  
Total  121 017 USD  

We can see that, the fuel costed him most of his income. In the reporting case, the bug make the fuel cost 60-70% higher. If we use these sets of data, we can find he lost about 126000 USD every week because of the bug. 7 planes means 126000*7=882000 USD a week. This is not a small number, that's about 1/5 of his income.

It maybe a wrong thing for leasing those gas guzzlers, however that's should not cost his life: if he can keep those income lost to bug, he is still making profit now even the fuel price is high. And he know how to handle the problem, he ordered 2 fuel-saving L1011-500. He should be able to order more and stay in the game until they arrive. The fuel price may kill him finally, but not now. The bug, not the fuel price, brings him into this trouble now.



He just told me that after he adjusted the route, he has profit of about 4xx xxx even the fuel price reached new high. But he has no cash, making his planes in a very bad condition(no repair can be done), not able to extend leasing or carring out any marketing.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 04:07:44 PM by type45 »

Offline MM21

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Re: Note to DC-8 users
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2009, 11:26:54 PM »
Finally, my airline bankrupt. As I found some of my message record, I found that the fuel cost extremely high at about one week age:

SAEZ - EGLL    $ 56 068     -$ 43 242     -$ 6 373     $ 6 453
EGLL - SAEZ  $ 57 439  -$ 53 602  -$ 6 768  -$ 2 931

After I re-scheduled my DC-8 routes, my cash raised from -12,xxx,xxx to -10,xxx,xxx. And I start to have profit, I would wonder if this bug discovered earlier or this bug never happened.I would not have to bankrupt. As I got $2xx,xxx loss at start, and I made more loss after the fuel prices raised. I made my DC-8s to have more domestic routes, but eventually... very curious that the loss continues increased. I think mostly at that time I'm operating more DC-8 than my airline have just bankrupted.

If that bug never happened, I can make profit at all the time but making losses continuously.Then my airline would not disappeared suddenly when I got up.  :( 

Offline Sami

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Re: Note to DC-8 users
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2009, 11:44:52 PM »
Shortly, you cannot make a profit with DC-8 with these fuel prices, no matter if the issue was fixed or not.

juanchopancho

  • Former member
Re: Note to DC-8 users
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2009, 01:57:10 AM »
He also had me on all his routes with more efficient aircraft and more seats.

Online type45

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Re: Note to DC-8 users
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2009, 02:52:28 AM »
Shortly, you cannot make a profit with DC-8 with these fuel prices, no matter if the issue was fixed or not.

I agree it will be true later. However, he even do not have a chances to get away from the DC-8s, nor lease a better plane. He just has no cash due to the problem. I can remember he's complaining his profit's growing is slow even the fuel price was still at about 80 USD, especially after he leased the DC-8 for long-hual. He's answer to high fuel price is L1011, and he just don't have the cash to do futher, no metter what model he ordered. I've tried to help him by offering him some L1011-100, but he can just answer me that he had not cash. I've do the same thing to another friend in jet age 2 and it works. I really wonder what will happen if he was able to keep making profit with those DC-8s and having some cash. I'll not say a word on this if it's a purely fuel price problem, but I think it's not acceptable for anybody if his company is killed more-or-less because of the bug.

juanchopancho

  • Former member
Re: Note to DC-8 users
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2009, 04:01:35 AM »
It wasn't just the fuel bug. He was -10 to -12 million for over 1 game year. Even if fuel was $40 he would have been toast.

Online type45

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Re: Note to DC-8 users
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2009, 05:18:23 AM »
It wasn't just the fuel bug. He was -10 to -12 million for over 1 game year. Even if fuel was $40 he would have been toast.

From the data I know, the number is less than 2 million (all of them were loan) before the price go up, and he still has cash to lease 2 L1011-500. Remember the feul cost of DC-8 is 60-70% higher than normal, that means when we were using the fuel at 80 USD/1000kg, he is actually spending 128-138 USD/1000kg on his DC-8s if the bug is shown by the price. He is already suffering when we are still having a relatively better time. The effect of price appeared on his company a long time before the price really rise and affect for us.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 05:20:36 AM by type45 »

 

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