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Author Topic: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR  (Read 5107 times)

hunty

  • Former member
No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« on: May 05, 2009, 09:48:45 PM »
Sami, HELP, I'm sure I'm not alone in this problem but I've been careful with my money and am now in a position to buy second hand acft but there is just nothing suitable that I want coming up. Also there are no slots at LHR even if I find an acft.
I don't think it's fair on the less experienced or smaller operators.

Please help!

Offline Kazari

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Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2009, 01:45:07 AM »
I don't mean this in any way disrespectfully. But this is what the game is -- making due with scarcity. That's what makes it a challenge.

LHR is probably a bad airport to start at because of the hours. de Gaulle or Amsterdam would be better because they're open all night.

We're all in the same boat on aircraft, though. Keep watching the used market as midnights come around. Things do come up -- I promise. I got a 747 the other day.

And if it all fails you, keep in mind that you can go bankrupt three different times. The first game I played I used all of them up learning how to compete.

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2009, 02:35:21 AM »
Quote
de Gaulle or Amsterdam would be better because they're open all night.

Well.. AMS wouldnt be a smart choice right now  ;)


~ But I think alot of people are missing the point about the early age game. This isn't a fly everywhere you want era. There are slot restrictions and aircraft limitations. Managing your airline to best utilizing the limits of both is the whole point here... Its what makes this game world difficult. Not to mention fuel shooting through the roof later on down the line.






Talentz

Offline Sami

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    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2009, 05:27:51 AM »
Well said. And that applies to ANY game world.

You just cannot expect to have 'unlimited' number of slots or supply of aircraft. But I will keep an eye on the slot situation for example as I'm a bit surprised how early they are running out on major airports (naturally the effect of early game year has the biggest effect here. haven't jheard of problems at the 1995 game)

mikeymike

  • Former member
Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2009, 09:39:39 AM »
i fly ouf LHR and when i chose that airport i fully expected competition to be stiff and slots hard to come by.
that is what makes in a challenge as also does the era!!  all of which has been mentioned i know.
and i dont expect slots just to be invented to help me out!!!!

mike

Jps

  • Former member
Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2009, 12:15:11 PM »
Even though big airports might sound easy due to their big size and capacity, it may not be the best place to start your first airline.
I started this game in Bangkok, with 4 other airlines. I went bust, and now in just 4 days I have got as big a fleet as I had got in 2 weeks with my 1st airline. I also have bigger income. And all this on a much smaller airport, but with no other airlines.
So, I'd suggest to choose the next airport (if you go bust) a smaller one, and preferably with no other airlines.

hunty

  • Former member
Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2009, 06:55:54 PM »
Well that opened a can of worms. Mikeymike, rereading my post I don't see anywhere that I asked for slots to be invented. You are trying to apply realworld to a game world situation and it doesn't work out like that. In the real world, I'm not sure if you work in aviation, but there are always slots available, maybe not in the hour or so you are looking for but certainly within say 3 hrs. I have certainly never seen a situation where there are about 20 slots available in the whole week. I think for the sake of the game there should be some allowance made. Again in the realworld you would not have the apparent suspension of fifth freedom rules and there would be some protection of LHR based airlines from foreign carriers.

Kazari - thanks for your advise but why would I declare bankrupcy when I have $50M + in the bank and aircraft running round with 80-90% load factor.

I've taken your comments on board everyone and will get on with things in my way.

Offline freshmore

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Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 07:56:25 PM »
some of the big airports like LHR i think have up to 6 or 7 airlines in them when i looked at them last, the slot situation isn't gonna last for long and my advice is go somewhere with no competition espicially in Jet Age 2 becuase you'll have good choice of new resonably largish airports to take your pick, once it gets over 220 the best of your choice will be gone if you want to be on your own.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2009, 08:43:13 PM »
first off peeps, settle down.  There is no reason to get heated.

I purposely picked Cancun as a starting location to give myself additional challenge.  There are only so many people who need to fly in and out of big towns.   I have almost purchased every plane of mine that I want to keep (except the big boys). 

It is all about financial management.  There will be plenty of slots opening up in the future when the airlines start to crash and burn miserably. 

It sounds almost as if the OP would rather play the private game....  I know that I've said this elsewhere, but there is NO fun having BILLIONS in the bank, an entire fleet of brand new planes, and virtually no one to compete with.   Sure, there may be tons of planes taking up the routes you want.

HERE IS WHY I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MANY OF THE PLAYERS:  Many of you are pussies.  You don't go after lines that someone else is already flying.  You let the same people win time and time again.  Why don't you gang up on them?  You guys let them grow so freaking big that they can literally fly empty planes from a to b and a full flight from b to c and they are profitable.   FIGHT for these lines.  COMPETE for market share. 

Sorry if I came off harsh.  I am just bored with people letting other airlines bully them around.  Get 10 guys and force out the Magic Carpets and Changs (just an example).   In all honesty, there is NO reason that I should have the 19th most valuable airlines in Cancun!   Heck, Cancun is the 45th largest airport in North America during this game.

Offline Sigma

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Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2009, 10:30:45 PM »

Sorry if I came off harsh.  I am just bored with people letting other airlines bully them around.  Get 10 guys and force out the Magic Carpets and Changs (just an example).   In all honesty, there is NO reason that I should have the 19th most valuable airlines in Cancun!   Heck, Cancun is the 45th largest airport in North America during this game.

Hey that's you down there?  Congratulations, you're doing some pretty impressive things down in Central America.

I'm Hyperion Airlines out of KDFW and have bumped against you on a couple routes.  I was extremely surprised last night when I was looking at the details and saw how many of your planes you owned.  And all by operating an airline out of Cancun throughout Central and South America, not exactly what one would consider lucrative routes, but you've done pretty well as evident by your ranking.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2009, 10:36:36 PM »
My big tip to success....  44 pax planes rule (thanks Fokker).  Cheap to operate and fly. 

My big problem is that I am now completely tapped out.  I have basically nowhere else to go to. 

I just hope that the 767s (go on sale in 1978) will open some avenues up to me. 

Perhaps I should go the route of the airplane broker?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 10:43:37 PM by swiftus27 »

Offline Sigma

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Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2009, 10:56:29 PM »
I'm running a Fokker airline too.  I love the things.  I run over 50 F28s.  Only recently once I firmly established myself as the leader in KDFW (I control the majority of all traffic through it) did I branch into A300s for dense domestic routes and DC-10-30s for long-range routes.   I got stuck with a 12 TU-134s on short-term lease when a competitor went bankrupt and I had to swoop up some slots in a hurry with whatever I could get on the market, but those will be replaced with F28 Mk4000s soon.

Ironically enough, I got "stuck" with the Fokkers when, after the restart, I found myself unable to get the planes I really wanted.  Instead of whining about the lack of planes, it prompted me to look around and the alternatives, and the F27/F28 are some really great planes for starting out.  They're cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, cheap to operate, quick to turnaround, and you can buy them en masse with almost no waiting which is great for raking in as many slots as you can early on.  I've even got a couple high-density routes I just run a lot of F28s on because they're honestly more profitable than putting an A300 on simply because of their efficiencies.

Next time I might try going with straight F27s to start, to magnify all the benefits of the F28 even more.  Margins would be great with those since their costs are so low, it's just setting up twice as many routes 9as they're half the size) that'd be a bit of a pain.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2009, 11:50:07 PM »
The only benefit to having a large plane like the 744D is if slots are limited.  People need to realize that there is a huge difference in fuel/pax when flying different planes.   People love spending 15000 fuel/hour to move 400 people even though you can have 4 100 pax planes using 3000 fuel/hour. 

It doesnt always make sense why people always think bigger is better. 

Offline Kazari

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Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2009, 12:03:48 AM »
I also love Fokkers.

But despite their thirstiness, I opted for DC-9s for some of my shorter routes (650nm) after using Fokkers for much of the game. The reason was my target airports (and the third-leg cities) operate 6-20 only, so I needed the jet speeds to accomplish some of the connections. But I do plan to lease a bunch out to others.

And although I have used Tu-114s so far, 747s are great for long-haul flights and have three-year waiting periods vs. 5 years for DC-10s.


Offline Trent900

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Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2009, 08:55:36 AM »
I'm also flying out of Heathrow and yes, there are no slots available at all. At the moment make it your priority to save money and build your cash reserves up because you will need them. Keep an eye on the slot situation because I have noticed occasionally they will appear if someone pulls out (which has happened a number of times). Set-up routes first and then find aircraft to fly them (you have 2 months before the unflown slots are put back into the pool).

Hopefully the number of slots will increase slowly over time due to the intruduction of new air traffic procedures etc  (is this calculated into the program Sami?).

D. 

intereuro
interworld - a proud member of the 'QualiTeam' alliance.

Offline Sigma

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Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2009, 01:00:36 PM »
Hopefully the number of slots will increase slowly over time due to the intruduction of new air traffic procedures etc  (is this calculated into the program Sami?).

There's a general percentage increase in slots everywhere that occurs slowly.  But it's VERY slowly and won't amount to more than a handful of slots over the course of the game.

hunty

  • Former member
Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2009, 07:36:34 AM »
One last post on the matter. The unrealistic situation has arrived where there are zero slots available at LHR. Maybe for future games it would be better to block carriers from enjoying such generous fifth freedom rights through an airport (as in the real world at LHR).

Cheers

CEO HuntExpress

Kontio

  • Former member
Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2009, 07:47:19 AM »
One last post on the matter. The unrealistic situation has arrived where there are zero slots available at LHR. Maybe for future games it would be better to block carriers from enjoying such generous fifth freedom rights through an airport (as in the real world at LHR).

What do you mean by unrealistic? As in unlike real life? Let's say I was running an airline in real life (now or in the 1970s) and wanted to fly to/from Heathrow, are you saying I would have no problem acquiring the necessary slots?

Fifth freedom rights can be removed the day we get to have multiple hubs (IMHO and my 2 cents and whatever).

mikeymike

  • Former member
Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2009, 08:41:04 AM »
er   unrealistic????   :o

Offline Sigma

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Re: No suitable second hand aircraft and no slots at LHR
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2009, 05:00:47 PM »
One last post on the matter. The unrealistic situation has arrived where there are zero slots available at LHR. Maybe for future games it would be better to block carriers from enjoying such generous fifth freedom rights through an airport (as in the real world at LHR).

Cheers

CEO HuntExpress

I don't know about the real-life situation at LHR, but MANY major airports around the world have or currently operate at full slot capacity.  Trying to fly into them is simply a matter of waiting for someone else to quit.

 

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