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Author Topic: Variable turnaround time  (Read 5261 times)

Offline Sami

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Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2009, 10:51:32 PM »
Taxi time is included in flight times.

For turnaround times a previous thread exists and the rough idea would be to make them variable according to the route type. Domestic turnaround on 757 will be shorter than longhaul route turnaround. No exact plans though.

edobarto

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Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2009, 08:17:13 AM »
I remember that Air Inter (IT/ITF) used to operate A300 on European routes. They had 314 seats on the a/c and a turn around time of 35 minutes was not uncommon for such a large aircraft on short to medium haul routes. Air Inter was a precursor of the current no frills airlines.
Anyway, I've just talked to an Etihad Airways pilot flying on the A330/340 and he told me that a A330-200 can be turned around in less than an hour: on their flights to Baharain and Kuwait, the a/c is usually turned around in 45 minutes, well below the 70 min required by the game.

Riger

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Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2009, 09:35:17 AM »

In reality, turn-around is the time taken from blocks-on to blocks-off. In our virtual world, the time we call "turn-around" seems to refer to the time between Arrival on and Departure from the runway, thus including taxi-times and departure delays.

An Etihad A340 can get turned around in (less than) an hour, but you might add 15 minutes to that time in Kuwait and 30 minutes at Heathrow in order to account for delays on the ground.  I suppose it would be more realistic to consider the airport (and the aircraft type) rather than just the aircraft type when calculating the wheels down to wheels up time, but that may just make the game more complex than what is comfortable.

Just my 2c.

Regards
Richard

Offline bleedfax18

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Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2009, 10:16:57 AM »
In reality, turn-around is the time taken from blocks-on to blocks-off. In our virtual world, the time we call "turn-around" seems to refer to the time between Arrival on and Departure from the runway, thus including taxi-times and departure delays.

Apparently not:

Taxi time is included in flight times.
CEO of INterFly

edobarto

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Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2009, 10:49:37 AM »
If we need to add time to the standard turn around time it would be ok: it's complicated but realistic. What I do not find realistic is to turn around an a/c in a time much higher than it's true time. What do you think about it? If it's not possible to shorten the turn around time to 35 mins as I mentioned in my first post, so why not reduce them anyway? If too short turn around times are not realistic, I think that even too long turn around times aren't so...

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2009, 11:03:53 AM »
The game already has the information for international (short and long) and domestic.  Perhaps, we set the times dependant on on what type of flight it is.

Offline Sami

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Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2009, 11:15:55 AM »
The whole turnaround time is not that simple, so just nailing something to be "unrealistic" is only something what you think of unrealistic, possibly.

As it depends on for example (just some things I came up in 2 mins):

* the type of route, ie. how long it is & how long time the passengers have to "mess" the cabin
* what kind of service onboard is made (more service, more cleaning)
* is the flight catered and/or fuelled?  (can fuelling be made pax boarding?)
* is the plane cleaned? if yes, how "heavy" cleaning and is it made by FA's or real cleaners?
* what kind of airport facilities are available? bus transport via apron or jetways, or perhaps two jetways for big planes?
* how the airline and handling organizations have been made? are they efficient and how the processes are made?

In Japan a longhaul A340 can be turned in 60 minutes if there is really a rush as there the whole team is really taking part of it and feel that it's their pride in questions (kinda) if the plane is late and they need to catch up. In Europe a normal "legacy" carrier normally turns A319 in 45-60(!) minutes after a 2hr intl flight if all services are included and depending on the organization, while a low cost carrier instists that turnaround at outstations cannot exceed 25 minutes.

So it's not merely as simple as you think.


But to start with .. it can be separated by the flight type / length. And also smaller turnarounds could be allowed but then you'd have to possibly cope with longer delays.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 11:18:45 AM by sami »

Offline type45

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Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2009, 02:01:53 PM »
I know CX's 744 can turn around at Tokyo in ~60mins, return to Hong Kong via Taipei, but nothing will be loaded besides from cargo and pax, everything have to be done before leaving Hong Kong.

It is no need to do everything in every turn around, maybe we can set 3 types of turn around time setting: full, base (normal) and outer station (short), require full turn around time every some days, normal turn around time for every some flight hours, and others can use short turn around
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 05:40:33 PM by type45 »

edobarto

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Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2009, 05:08:01 PM »
Yep, I think that the division of turn around time between short-medium-long haul would be fine! :)

Offline Gaius Marius

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Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2009, 11:43:35 PM »
* the type of route, ie. how long it is & how long time the passengers have to "mess" the cabin
* what kind of service onboard is made (more service, more cleaning)
* is the flight catered and/or fuelled?  (can fuelling be made pax boarding?)
* is the plane cleaned? if yes, how "heavy" cleaning and is it made by FA's or real cleaners?
* what kind of airport facilities are available? bus transport via apron or jetways, or perhaps two jetways for big planes?
* how the airline and handling organizations have been made? are they efficient and how the processes are made?

In future versions it would be nice for the airline to decide the level of in flight service that they provide.  This could affect (by a modifier) the turn around times as well as expenses and, of course, Route Image.  Also, a more stringent morale modifier could seriously affect turn around times.

GM
"Flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss"

dazz81

  • Former member
Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2009, 04:09:27 AM »
This has been an issue raised since beta. I have been away from this game for months and just came back - and found turnaround times basically unchanged since then. I think it is really poor - widebodies on domestic runs... e.g. A300's (Thai Airways for example) and B767-300's (Qantas for example) turn in 40 minutes or 45 minutes regularly. The flight times on short routes are already higher than real life, so the added increased turnarounds means it is impossible to run a widebody shorthaul operation like real life airlines do. I will continue to wait for this to be improved.

Talentz

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Re: Turn Around Time
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2009, 04:13:13 AM »
 :o

Welcome back my kangaroo friend!




Talentz

tofen

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2009, 01:30:09 PM »
I'm just dragging this thread up again since it seems like there's still haven't been any changes to the turn time calculations and I feel this is a big issue to the game.

My suggestion is to make the turn times depending on ether the type of the flight (domestic/international short/international long) or buy the real length of the flight and combine that with the number of seats of the aircraft.
What type of aircraft is actually quite irrelevant, turning a 50seat full premium configured plane should be a lot quicker than turning one with 150 economy seats. And a 1 hour domestic leg shouldn't need the same time as a 13h longhaul.

One of the reasons I want the seatcount to be a factor in this, is that otherwise a fleet renewal could screw your schedule a lot!
I'm in the proses of swapping my DC-8s in for B767s. The B767 takes 45min longer time to turn (90min vs. 135min) on the same flight even if they have the exact same amount of seats. That's really not realistic, if anything, the B767 should be faster to turn since it has dual aisles.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2009, 01:35:31 PM by tofen »

Offline Sami

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2009, 01:37:17 PM »
My suggestion is to make the turn times depending on ether the type of the flight (domestic/international short/international long) or buy the real length of the flight and combine that with the number of seats of the aircraft.

Yes, something like that (route type) it will be.

Not sure if it's a v.1.2 item yet.

tofen

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2009, 02:10:15 PM »
Yes, something like that (route type) it will be.

Not sure if it's a v.1.2 item yet.
Sounds good. Better in my opinion to fix the "problems" in current versions before adding new features.


What about some easy formula like this (for 1% delay):

for domestic and short international: ("number of pax" * 0.3) + 10, and round to closest 5min. (the + 10 is so that very small planes still will have some time on the ground)
That would give:
19seater: 15min
50seater: 25min
100seater: 40min
150seater: 55min
200seater: 70min
300seater: 100min
400seater: 130min

for long international: ("number of pax" * 0.4), and round to closest 5min.
That would give:
150seater: 60min
200seater: 80min
300seater: 120min
400seater: 160min

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2011, 07:34:25 PM »
Any chance of this making it into 1.3?

Offline jewiden

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2011, 08:12:50 PM »
tofens formula actually seems like a good idea, except that it needs some tweaking.
With his formula, turning a 738 doing a OSL-TRD would take over an hour, were it takes 25-30 minutes realtime.

Offline Daveos

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2011, 06:44:44 PM »
Yes, something like that (route type) it will be.

Not sure if it's a v.1.2 item yet.

I wondered if this could be linked to the type of airline (as in this thread.

As alluded to in previous posts, this would allow short haul, low cost style carriers to retain dominance in their sectors.  25 minute turnarounds on 737-800s are impossible in AWS at the momnet, but Ryanair (for example) utilises 25 minute turnarounds and as seen from this link it resides at 19th for punctuality in 2010 in the UK, ahead of many carriers with whom delays would perhaps be less expected.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2011, 07:00:04 PM »
Sounds good. Better in my opinion to fix the "problems" in current versions before adding new features.


What about some easy formula like this (for 1% delay):

for domestic and short international: ("number of pax" * 0.3) + 10, and round to closest 5min. (the + 10 is so that very small planes still will have some time on the ground)
That would give:
19seater: 15min
50seater: 25min
100seater: 40min
150seater: 55min
200seater: 70min
300seater: 100min
400seater: 130min

for long international: ("number of pax" * 0.4), and round to closest 5min.
That would give:
150seater: 60min
200seater: 80min
300seater: 120min
400seater: 160min

The percent multipliers must change as we progress through the generations of a/c.  Meaning a 707 should have a much longer turn time than a 757 and then in turn a 787. 

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Variable turnaround time
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2011, 08:26:37 PM »
The percent multipliers must change as we progress through the generations of a/c.  Meaning a 707 should have a much longer turn time than a 757 and then in turn a 787. 

That's a good idea.

 

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