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Author Topic: This aircraft too small for route  (Read 371 times)

Offline Lamomaz

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This aircraft too small for route
« on: May 10, 2016, 09:23:55 AM »
Hello!

I have route distance 1155 NM on this route was assigned Fokker 70 (1120range), now I replace that Fokker with Superjet 100/75b (1480range) and I received warning message "This aircraft type may be too small for this route".
But why?


Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: This aircraft too small for route
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2016, 10:13:30 AM »
I guess it's an international route, as the limit should be longer for a SSJ within the same country.

It's a factor of comfort. Too small planes for very long travels are not comfortable, and you'll suffer from a penalty by flying with such a small plane. Though you're probably not far from the limit with your SSJ, so penalty will be small.

Note that the penalty only applies on routes with a big demand. I've made a lot of studies with SW3, and the limit is around 280NM abroad, 350NM within the country, but only for routes with demand above 34(those numbers are approximations). I've successfull flown routes up to 1200NM with SW3(and even 2200NM with a tech stop), but only when demand was below 33/34.

The limit is computed against the average number of seats of the whole fleet group. IIRC, SSJJ has 2 models with 70 pax, and 2 models with 90 pax. Ergo an average of 80 passengers. The F70/100/120 has capacities of 70, 105 & 115, for an average of 98 or so. I'm not sure of the exact limit, I haven't been able to make an accurate calculation, but you really must be barely above. It should not be tough there, so no worry for this route. Though if you have routes above 1200NM with a lot of demand(120+ or so), then the SSJ is probably not a good choice.

Offline Andre090904

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Re: This aircraft too small for route
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2016, 04:18:56 PM »
Thanks for your response, but would you mind explaining your figures? I can't follow you.

See here:
Quote
and the limit is around 280NM abroad, 350NM within the country, but only for routes with demand above 34(those numbers are approximations). I've successfull flown routes up to 1200NM with SW3(and even 2200NM with a tech stop), but only when demand was below 33/34.

What's SW3? What is a demand of 33/34 and what are those 280NM/350NM ranges referring to?

Thanks,
André

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: This aircraft too small for route
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2016, 05:25:00 PM »
Thanks for your response, but would you mind explaining your figures? I can't follow you.

See here:
What's SW3? What is a demand of 33/34 and what are those 280NM/350NM ranges referring to?

Thanks,
André

SW3 is the short code for the Fairchild-Swearingen Metro family. It's a 19 seater. I did use it intensively in the last part of previous GW3, as it allows insanely stupid lines to actually work(like Edinburgh-Kangerlussuaq with a tech stop in Keflavik, or Nice-Bobo Dioulasso with a tech stop in the Algerian desert). I didn't make a lot of money with them, but I had a lot of fun.

As a 19-Seater, though, it is not comfortable. And people will take it in either very short lines, or lines with so few demand that they have no choice(Warsaw-Murmansk, Faro-Rodez.....). Which means that the "too small penalty" Lamomaz is speaking about will fire on a line that is :

(1)With a demand around 35 or more(the average shown when you try to open the line, with the graph with blue lines)
(2)A distance above 350NM on domestic routes, or above 280NM on international routes.

Which means that I can fly - and outpace opposition, on a very big domestic line around 300NM. But I cannot apply the same strategy on the same kind of line at international. I can, OTOH, link very small towns at very long distances. I even had one of them doing 6 flights per day, including a 1120NM night flight, and 5 very short daily flights to a nearby big city. I was doing big money with that plane(well, according to the plane's size, not in absolute numbers, of course.....).

The biggest the plane, the highest the limit. The Saab 2000 is a nice plane for that : its operational range is roughly the same as his "too small penalty" limit. The SSJ allows very long flights(up to 2400NM IIRC), which allows you risky very long flights on routes with limited demand.....but when demand increases, you have to switch to single-aisle aircraft. Like in reality. While on shorter routes, you don't have that problem, and can add more SSJ flights.

Though having a clearer idea of what are really the limits would help a lot. I made recent tries in the USA where I currently play, and it seems that the A148, for domestic flights, can reach 1355NM, but not 1385NM, and it's very similar to the SSJ, but that's not a clear number. Its international limits are probably more around 1000/1100NM, and roughly the same for the SSJ. And Sami said that the penalty is linear : it's small when you slightly exceed the limit, it's huge when you completely overthrow it(don't fly Heathrow-Istambul with SW3.....Or Nantes Le Lamentin with A148E as I did with a tech stop. It's suicide).

Offline Andre090904

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Re: This aircraft too small for route
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2016, 09:42:12 PM »
Hmm, thanks, got it now!

I am currently flying Viscount 700D aircrafts as far as 1550NM and have not had any warning. Demand ist lower than 70 though and mostly no competition. So this seems to work out for the moment...but I'm scared it'll change one day.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: This aircraft too small for route
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2016, 10:09:22 PM »
Hmm, thanks, got it now!

I am currently flying Viscount 700D aircrafts as far as 1550NM and have not had any warning. Demand ist lower than 70 though and mostly no competition. So this seems to work out for the moment...but I'm scared it'll change one day.

The aircraft too small penalty is not all or nothing.  It ranges, from say 1% to 100%.  So you may get to the point where it goes from 0% (not listed) to something higher, but it is not going to kill your LFs right away.

The penalty depends on:
- fleet type (average capacity of the aircraft in the fleet)
- distance
- demand for the route you are trying to fly.

So the penalty is basically saying that a route that is a long distance and has high demand calls for an appropriate (larger) aircraft.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: This aircraft too small for route
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2016, 06:50:58 AM »
I also suffered from it when I opened linest to the US East coast from Scotland with 737-700. I made a lot of money when demand was around 160, forgot the line, and 10 years after, the bird was struggling to make any money. Demand 240, still no opposition. Especially Glasgow-Detroit. Was a cash cow for nearly 15 years..... and then nothing.

 

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