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Author Topic: L649A  (Read 2090 times)

Online JumboShrimp

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Re: L649A
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2016, 07:48:09 AM »
This is my first time in the full game after some time in Beginners World.

After assembling a small fleet of used props, I was looking to move to new jets and got 5 DC8's without issue and was looking to get a few more before developing a fleet of 727s. 

As I work I cannot be on the game continuously waiting for aircraft to become available.  So I was surprised to see the 727 go from not launched to an 8 year delivery time over 1 realtime day.  Even the DC8 has a 5 year delivery time and there are no prop used aircraft to be found. 

Overall, at this point disappointing.

I have played exclusively the Modern Times games, and the recent start times of these games are timed in such a way that there is a wealth of options - production lines that are open, that are all viable aircraft.  For the workhorse type large aircraft there is:
- A320 with a ton of aircraft on UM
- 737 classic, with a ton of aircraft on UM
- MD-80, ditto, ton of aircraft on UM
- Fokker
- MD-90 line opening
- 737 NG line about to open
 - several choices of regional jets and props

Additionally, there is a ton of 737 Jurasic, 727, DC-9 on the UM, while their production lines are already closed.  There are some less popular Russian aircraft there too.

The same number of players start, and you can always get some aircraft that will make you some profit, years from the start of the game, while new production lines are pumping out aircraft.

I seem to recall that the early era game started with fewer players in the past.  Now we have 600 players, same as Modern Times games in this game world, with only a small fraction of used aircraft of what we see in MT worlds, with very few viable alternatives for the future.

A couple that you mentioned, DC8 and 727 are decent choices, but these 2 production lines produce only about 600 aircraft per year combined.  That's exactly 1 aircraft per player per year. which sums it up where we stand in this game world.

This is not exactly playable - and I stressed playability in several posts.  If the game world is going to have 600 players, the game should be playable for a large percentage of them.

If the realism is going to sacrificed by the number of players (airlines) in the game world, then parallel adjustment needs to be made to stock of existing used aircraft, and how quickly the new aircraft gets produced.

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: L649A
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2016, 08:59:59 AM »
- besides beginner world allowing new players a chance to get their hands dirty, it is always a good idea to start at an easier airport where there is some healthy demand and less competition.
+1. My first two game worlds, I starter in Glasgow & Edinburgh. Never BK'd. Always had place. It also helped that I could open bases in all Europe(not possible until 1997, or something like that), but I see a few juicy aiports in Europe with no base opened here yet. I keep the list for my mentee, but you can find them with a quick search.

- It is always a good idea to plan well in advance. in the real world, fleet decisions are incredibly long term decisions. that isn't so different here.
+1 too. In previous GW3, I switched from CRJs to A148s. To a lesser plane. I had more than 200 CRJs at a time. I ended the game with 660 A148s. Took me easily 10 years. Took me out of the average pack, to the over-average pack(still far from the best, but that long-term decision was a game-changer for me).

- the AWS community is incredibly helpful, even though it is very competitive.
Read the guide, ask questions, and look how the best players do. Look at their fleet choices(hint : it matters less than you think), their scheduling choices(hint : they are gods of Tetriss), try to guess their pricing choices(hint : they rarely make price wars), etc.

- preferred aircraft and airports usually get filled fast, that is why thy are popular. in real life, if you ordered a 787 today, you won't pick it up until 2021 or so, because it is a very popular model.
Same for A320 & B737. In another category, Cityjet recently ordered SSJs, for getting the first deliveries within one year. SSJ that is far from oversold those days. In the game, you can have it in 3 months when it's not oversold(it's never) The game is in fact far less punitive than the real world.

- just like new players, many of the experienced players are also having fleet struggles, including myself. the key here is to be able to adapt your strategy to the various hurdles.
Yeah. When one player with only owned aircraft begin to pricewar your new base for which you"ve taken risks, you're not in a comfortable position. At all. When you began with B737NG, and all of a sudden, there is none to be found for the next 4 years, well, you begin to fill your other niches(ERJs in my case).

- being able to workaround various hurdles is the fun of this game. otherwise this would be a dull experience.
+1. I played an alternative with planes delivered within 3 hours and no opposition, and it has no flavor. Having your HQ under attack by a great player, and surviving, gives you a sense of achievement.

- this game certainly has flaws that many of us have been screaming about for years. however things take time to develop. I don't know how much resources sami has allocated, but i know he's doing his best.
If you look at the game cost, take off the taxes, and multiply by the number of players on the head screen, you know that the team cannot be big. reaching already that level is an achievement - even if obviously there is always room to grow.

Bottom line: Have a strategy, have several back up plans, be patient, and ask for help.
Bottom line : you're one of the best, and I've learned a lot observing the best-led companies. Hint : half of them belong to Elite. Look at them. See how they thrive. And beat them.  ;)

Offline gazzz0x2z

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Re: L649A
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2016, 09:10:10 AM »
(.../...)
I seem to recall that the early era game started with fewer players in the past.  Now we have 600 players, same as Modern Times games in this game world, with only a small fraction of used aircraft of what we see in MT worlds, with very few viable alternatives for the future.(.../...)
This, OTOH, I agree with. Allowing 600 players in an era with far less opportunities than the late 90s is a call for a bloodbath. Most players in GW2 seem to have nice margins for now, but when capacities will increase and fleet replacements will arrive, there will be deaths. Lot of. There is no place for that much players. if there was enough planes as you ask for, there would be not enough passengers to fly them.

Offline Sami

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Re: L649A
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2016, 09:19:45 AM »
Allowing 600 players in an era with far less opportunities than the late 90s is a call for a bloodbath

That's not really true since the economics and other values are scaled to take account the higher player number. This was mentioned for example in the game's announcement post: http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,62977.0.html

Quote
We were happy to see that the early interest for this new game was huge - there have been hundreds more pre-signups than expected. Based on this interest some adjustments have been made to the game settings to accommodate all players. This means more passenger demand, more airport slots, higher aircraft production rates, and other small changes to the "real-world based" settings to make the game's early stages more enjoyable to everyone.

(= the passenger numbers are more than double than compared to the normal of that era, the slot amount at the airports are 3.5x normal currently, and aircraft production rate is more than 2x of the normal rate too. The number of used aircraft generated when the game started is also relative to the player count.)

Offline yearofthecactus

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Re: L649A
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2016, 10:54:44 AM »
That's not really true since the economics and other values are scaled to take account the higher player number. This was mentioned for example in the game's announcement post: http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,62977.0.html

(= the passenger numbers are more than double than compared to the normal of that era, the slot amount at the airports are 3.5x normal currently, and aircraft production rate is more than 2x of the normal rate too. The number of used aircraft generated when the game started is also relative to the player count.)

You still have a game that to get new aircraft within a reasonable time-frame requires you be online at an exact moment. Being based in North America, that time yesterday was 2:30pm on a Wednesday. I've calmed down from yesterday, I still have a few credits left to burn.

But lets make something very clear. You can do all you want to improve pax numbers and the availability of used craft in the early game. But your way of dealing with new orders based upon when you are online is simply flawed. Can't you see that, or do you think that's a good way to deal with it?

Offline alexgv1

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Re: L649A
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2016, 11:06:17 AM »
yet the best way to make sure you get a shot at building your airline is... to have no life and be online at every moment.

 ;D

Well done this did make me laugh and it can certainly feel that way sometimes. There are/were a few players like this but I think even Curse (hello!  :) ) has got a life outside of AWS now. Most people work or study.

I'm not a new player but I rarely play and spend only a little time on-line. Still I managed to easily grab some DC-6es (7 of them) early on (one of the most popular models if not THE most popular early in the game) which allowed me to afford lots of Il-18s which facilitate my growth (only 2-3 months waiting time right at the start). I think a lot of new players just try to jump the bandwagon and start at big airports and order the most popular models. It's extremely easy to have a successful airline at a 2nd tier airport utilizing less popular planes. Lots of unpopular Soviet or other niche planes guarantee decent profit margins. If you can't compete at LHR - find your niche. It is difficult to start long-haul airline at a major airport but starting small and growing big from a 2nd tier is definitely possible and enjoyable.

I think this is very good advice. I don't know your situation but it can be just as satisfying to build up an airline at a second (or even third tier) airport and there can still be some competition to make things interesting. I've always done this as admittedly I haven't always had the time to compete at LHR, etc and have never tried.

I do hope you can persevere and find some enjoyment from the game, as you see here we are a nice bunch of chaps (and even a few girls!). We all make mistakes and learn eventually - ask Jona L. about his Bermuda base circa 2010! A lot of great features such as the mentoring system have been introduced, although that won't help you get planes from the market it may help with your strategy.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline hmellouli

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Re: L649A
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2016, 06:49:50 AM »
Bottom line : you're one of the best, and I've learned a lot observing the best-led companies. Hint : half of them belong to Elite. Look at them. See how they thrive. And beat them.  ;)

Thanks Bud! that' re ally nice of you to say!

Also, I also learned by watching and competing with Elite members, before i eventually joined them haha!

Offline Air Azure [President and CEO]

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Re: L649A
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2016, 09:07:51 AM »
Thanks Bud! that' re ally nice of you to say!

Also, I also learned by watching and competing with Elite members, before i eventually joined them haha!

I have my Elite Member in Haneda under control ;D

Offline ThomThom

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Re: L649A
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2016, 02:55:52 PM »
Hello,

I think tis game in this phase is to be patient and try how ever you can to catch the fish. Its like real there are very big airlines and smaller ones. Why not be happy with a smaller one. To have fun is not to get big success. I mean the way your Airline expand or not expand is interesting. Im a new player here too and it makes me happy to see my airline how it grows or not. Sure if there is a hard way to the end but to play from beginning is also nice. Ones i had in my airline profite and no money and it looks like the end . I fighted for it and changed it and now there is profite again. I do not need to be one of the best. Experiences do not fall from heaven. So sure there are big players and they have experiences and they know how to grow up very fast. But they gone there way like us newer player.

Dont give up!

Even it is hard i like this game and create my airline ;)

Have fun!

Offline hmellouli

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Re: L649A
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2016, 08:17:19 PM »
I have my Elite Member in Haneda under control ;D

I'm sure you think so. However in any case we'll be happy to offer pro-Bono legal services to help your airline through it's bankruptcy hearing!  :P  ;D

Offline mindspit

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Re: L649A
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2016, 11:21:42 PM »
On another note, I've been saving all my money for when the 727 was announced to pre-order. It came when I was out. An hour later, 3 GAME DAYS there is an order backlog of nearly 1000 and that's another 4 year wait.


With 2480 aircraft on the 727 waiting list why not adapt and get a comparable aircraft like a HS121? 90 on back order will allow you get it it 2-3 years earlier than the 727 and your competition.

Online JumboShrimp

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Re: L649A
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2016, 11:50:43 PM »
With 2480 aircraft on the 727 waiting list why not adapt and get a comparable aircraft like a HS121? 90 on back order will allow you get it it 2-3 years earlier than the 727 and your competition.

Because it has only half the range of 727?

Offline mindspit

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Re: L649A
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2016, 12:04:11 AM »
Enough range to cover every major city in Europe if based in this region. A 3 year advantage on routes run by a competitor with an aging piston or turbo prop has to be worth a gamble.

Online JumboShrimp

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Re: L649A
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2016, 03:58:56 AM »
Enough range to cover every major city in Europe if based in this region. A 3 year advantage on routes run by a competitor with an aging piston or turbo prop has to be worth a gamble.

True, if you are based in middle of Western Europe, or Japan, or Eastern US.  but it does not work that well anywhere else.

Offline pascaly

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Re: L649A
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2016, 10:07:24 AM »

I'll give the gameworld 1 week, but it'll be goodbye here. Not worth the time, effort and money

It's not Tetris dude, there's a reason the game worlds last months and months; if you're after instant gratification I'd suggest anything in the "Candy Crush" series.  NOT suggesting you leave, in fact the opposite. The only solution to the problems is to stick with it.

Contact some of the mentors around here, post questions in the forums (not just complaints) and read the FAQs and the guides.  It takes time but is well worth it.

Online JumboShrimp

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Re: L649A
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2016, 07:37:04 PM »
The only solution to the problems is to stick with it.

Yup, I am way on the way to make a lemonade out of the lemon (of a late start to an empty UM).

In fact I opened a lemonade stand open.  Anybody thirsty can stop by.  (Any way to make enough profits to lease the next DC-8)

Offline Orion

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Re: L649A
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2016, 09:17:22 PM »
Fly Tupolev.  In Mother Russia operators no wait on planes, planes must on operators.  *says with thick russian accent*

Even though I got in on the DH Comet line there are breaks in my orders so I decided not to wait 4 years while demand fills up.

Online saetta

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Re: L649A
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2016, 06:45:49 PM »
This is a game of patience, we are all dealt the same cards...no more whining please !!. You can do just fine avoiding  DC 6 and all the other superstars ...Martins, armstrongs, DC 4 are all money makers till times get better and the whiners go BK

Online saetta

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Re: L649A
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2016, 06:47:29 PM »
727 are not the cat's meauw
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 03:11:17 AM by saetta »

Offline Joshua Jordan

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Re: L649A
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2016, 12:53:21 PM »
On another note, I've been saving all my money for when the 727 was announced to pre-order. It came when I was out. An hour later, 3 GAME DAYS there is an order backlog of nearly 1000 and that's another 4 year wait.

How is it fair that being offline at a certain time puts your airline at a disadvantage like that.

Not giving it a week anymore, I'm leaving now. You have a very good game, but one that basically punishes you if you aren't online at certain times or contacts to get you so. How that is justifiable?

Honestly, it isn't.
Goodbye




Of course it would be fair to make other players wait until you're online before they can order planes?   Do stores wait for you to arrive before they open the doors? Not wishing to sound disingenuous, but that's life.

 

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