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Author Topic: [-] pricing woes  (Read 217 times)

Offline KestrelAIH

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[-] pricing woes
« on: January 14, 2016, 02:11:41 AM »
Hi Guys

On some of my routes the pricing is going mad - I am losing MILLIONs, when I go to previously profitable routes they now have LF in 20%s. Looking at prices, the eco fares have gone up to crazy levels and in most cases above Biz. I HAVE NOT done this. Its happening each day to sometimes 10 routes and its is bankrupting me. I adjust the routes to sensible levels and then next day either they or another route are way back up. Its only happened since a new game player joined the route (s). He's making a fortune, I try and compete only to find my pricing has gone haywire and it therefore kills my LF. these were previously profitable routes.

I have literally changed 20 routes over past few days, typically LF collapses, I go to route, and its 20-300$ rather than a typical 150-100$ for that route. I would not set it to that level intentionally and its happening on way too many routes to be an error on my part ( I accept if it was just one route then something might slip through the net as a pricing typo)

Ive added some screen shots, I'm in Game World 4 and have gone from 15+ game years of profits to massive losses within a real-world week, and I can't keep up with having to constantly readjust my prices that are automatically going up.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 08:29:00 AM by sami »

Offline schro

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Re: pricing woes
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 02:32:58 AM »
That interface does not show you the actual price of the route if I'm remembering correctly. You need to go to the price management page or the route info page for the route. The price icon on a route list won't give you actual set pricing info, but is a way to change it.

Regardless, your issues with respect to your profitability are not related to a change in your sales, but rather an increase of your expenses. If you want to survive, I suggest figuring out why those are up (hint: 4 fleet types and fuel).

Offline KestrelAIH

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Re: pricing woes
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 02:48:07 AM »
Its not fuel - my fuel is 50% hedged and if it was just  that the change would be gradual not overnight. Other expenses should not have changed significantly either as on the routes concerned its the same aircraft with the same configuration, nothing has significantly changed there. I completely agree that over time there are changes that affect my profitability - my current losses are not totally due to this strange effect - but having to spend an hour a day re-adjusting prices that I have not altered in the first place cannot be a normal mode of play.

Furthermore, regardless of interface, what are the chances of this occurring solely on routes that have had overnight price collapses?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 02:51:45 AM by KestrelAIH »

Offline schro

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Re: pricing woes
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 03:25:46 AM »
Its not fuel - my fuel is 50% hedged and if it was just  that the change would be gradual not overnight. Other expenses should not have changed significantly either as on the routes concerned its the same aircraft with the same configuration, nothing has significantly changed there. I completely agree that over time there are changes that affect my profitability - my current losses are not totally due to this strange effect - but having to spend an hour a day re-adjusting prices that I have not altered in the first place cannot be a normal mode of play.

Furthermore, regardless of interface, what are the chances of this occurring solely on routes that have had overnight price collapses?

So, in order for sami to investigate the bug, you've got to be a bit more precise - i.e. what set of actions can someone do to replicate the shenanigans that you're seeing? That needs to be known to troubleshoot it.

Regardless, when I look at your financials, I see that you had 912m in revenue and 903m in expenses for Q1 of 1997. I see in Q4 you had 902m in revenue and 936m in expenses. That tells me that your expenses went up much faster than your revenue for some reason. The other thing is that your fleet is approaching 300 planes, which is the level where 4th fleet types become unsustainable when faced with heavy competition (as your costs go up on a logarithmic scale for each additional plane that you add to the fleet).

Also, just looking at the WIII to WIIB route, you have at one of your flights that's timed too close to other flights which will cause your loads to tank (hint: 7866 and 413) on those specific flight. I also see overlapping flights to WIMM.

Offline KestrelAIH

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Re: pricing woes
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 03:57:44 AM »
All of what you say is correct and I appreciate your input advice and time, however it does not explain the phonomenon that I am describing. I have taken a hit on expenses due fleet replacement issues, again nothing that you refer to explains the issue I am raising, I know my structure is challenging (i am deliberately playing a challenging scenario with thin routes, long distances and restricted airport hours).

Im simply reporting a phenomenon whereby without any action on my part a pricing structure on a route is changing, which on top of all the other woes I have is causing me to waste an hour a day recalibrating prices I have not changed, which in turn reduces my capacity to try and tweak things to regain a more coherent structure (fleet/route/schedule)

Im just advising of a potential glitch or bug somewhere in the system.

The fact im losing money is irrelevant as its all part of the game fun. ;-)

Im sure Sami will advise what info he needs.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 04:09:38 AM by KestrelAIH »

Offline Sami

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Re: pricing woes
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 08:28:54 AM »
Not really sure what the actual report or issue is here?  But the pricing of a route does not change, unless you change it yourself.

If you modify a price of a single route from any page, it always shows the actual prices you have currently. But if you use some combined multi-route pricing tool the default value boxes show the default prices instead (since each route might not have the same price).

Looked some routes with low LF and they are all heavily competed. And also you have several overlapping routes = flights that depart within 10-15 mins of each others.. So this is definitely not a bug

Online gazzz0x2z

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Re: [-] pricing woes
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 11:18:24 AM »
It happened to me at least 4 times in 2 GW to accidentally click the +1% on all routes button just after a specific price change. And to have a +1% on every existing route I absolutely did not want. It's my fault, but the page chain is prone to that kind of mistakes. You're not sure you validated your modification, you reclick, and babababam. Took me a long time to understand.

Offline KestrelAIH

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Re: [-] pricing woes
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2016, 03:03:35 PM »
Thanks for all the answers but maybe I didn't make myself clear: on certain routes I adjust the price to what I think is the appropriate level. I do it individually. I endure that I get the message that says changes are confirmed. I go to work. I come back and the same flight that I adjusted now has a price level way way above what I had or would set and is even up to double what I had set as the biz fare.

asia completely acknowledge all the comments about costs, competition and timing. But I still am left with a fare adjustment that then auto adjusts again without any input from me. oh well.

Offline schro

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Re: [-] pricing woes
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 03:09:30 PM »
Thanks for all the answers but maybe I didn't make myself clear: on certain routes I adjust the price to what I think is the appropriate level. I do it individually. I endure that I get the message that says changes are confirmed. I go to work. I come back and the same flight that I adjusted now has a price level way way above what I had or would set and is even up to double what I had set as the biz fare.

And it is quite possible there's a bug related to that, but what you're stating is very difficult to recreate. I am a bit curious as to what steps you used, because I was just checking some pricing I didn't think that I had adjustd down for competition purposes and found it was already down.. so... can you be specific with exactly which interface you use to make these changes?

For example:
1. Route management list page, click price icon
2. Make adjustment
3. Click OK
4. something
5. Something
6. ....
7. Shocker as things don't match


Online gazzz0x2z

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Re: [-] pricing woes
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 04:04:26 PM »
click once on confirm, not twice. The second confirm button adds 1% to all you flights. If like me you adjust 20-30 specific prices a day, and if you always confirm twice, then ALL your prices will increase 20/30%. Not a bug, but the interface could be improved.

Offline Sami

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Re: [-] pricing woes
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2016, 12:48:57 AM »
One random example, picked a route with low avg LF.

Route B77525, WAOO - WARJ.
Game date: 1998-03-15. Your current Y class price is $218 while system recommends price to be $145. LF is hence only about 25%.
Backup, game date: 1998-02-18 (14.1. / ~14.00). Ticket price for Y class is still that same, $218.
Backup, game date: 1997-11-14 (12.1. / ~14.00). Ticket price for Y class is still that same, $218.

So they definitely do not change by themselves .. I would suggest to check what you do with the pricing tools and how you update the prices, since I think you may be adjusting them without realizing.

This particular route had a near-full load factor still a few game weeks ago, with that $218 price. It was just fine since you had a monopoly there and supplied less than the demand. But the competitor has just opened on this route (at the end of Feb-98) and it means that there is now more supply than demand, so your high price doesn't cut it anymore. = The low LF is not because of prices changing by themselves but because there is new competition around and your old lucrative routes cannot be flown with "monopoly pricing" anymore (pricing which you've set at some point in the way past; at least on this particular route).


(Also the reason for your reduced profits are NOT reduced revenues (ie. decreased sales). Your expenses have steadily increased all the time over the last few years - see income statement and compare the graphs there.. For example on 7/1996 your operating revenue was $351mil and ops expenses were $325mil, and in 12/97 revenue was $346mil and expenses $354mil.. So besides of finding ways to increase the revenue, I'd suggest taking a good look at the expenses too.)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 01:14:01 AM by sami »

 

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