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Author Topic: [ok] Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....  (Read 497 times)

Offline ZombieSlayer

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[ok] Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« on: December 07, 2015, 06:47:19 PM »
Civil Aviation Administration - Ramp Check Results

The Civil Aviation Administration has made a Ramp Check to one of your Airbus A330-200 aircraft (N300GG) and have found out that the aircraft has not been maintained properly. The B check of the aircraft has expired (or it has not been scheduled into the aircraft's rotation or it has expired).

The CAA has fined you for the amount of 312 000 USD for using an aircraft that not properly maintained and they also expect you to correct this problem as soon as possible.

You can view more details from the My Aircraft page.


GW1. Removed plane from the used market, swapped into a line on July 25th, a Wednesday, with A/B mx scheduled for Saturday, July 28th. The checks were presumably expired, so I don't know why the "Perform A and B checks immediately" function on the swap page did not work properly again, and got hit with the ramp check on Friday, July 27th.

There is a problem here. Just randomly went in and selected a plane to swap. Selected multiple planes to swap it to, and any plane not currently in MX automatically populates those "Perform A Check immediately" and "Perform B Check immediately" boxes. It appears that the checks are not being performed despite those boxes being checked.

Again, this cost me 10 CI points and my alliance 7 cumulative points which is unacceptable. The fault lies with the system, please investigate and restore my CI and my alliances' points.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 11:00:05 PM by sami »
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Offline schro

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2015, 06:59:03 PM »
http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,56750.0.html

Duplicate. This bug has been open for nearly a year and has not been resolved. I'm going to order it a birthday cake!

Offline Sami

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2015, 07:03:43 PM »
Was luckily online just now saw I got the copy of the aircraft status now, will get to the bottom of this now.

edit:

#0; game date 20-Jul-2012 (backup snapshot)
#1; aircraft msn #2087. removed from sale, rebased to JFK
#2; aircraft status is: last A & B checks on 01-Mar-2012 [expired].
#3; search for N300GG (msn #3715), click swap schedule button, choose #2087. Observe that the notification "A & B check of this aircraft has expired" appears normally. Both A and B checkboxes are checked automatically.
#4; choose the "swap reg.numbers" and click confirm, get noticiation that the schedule has been moved.
#5; aircraft #2087 is then marked to be in maintenance. Aircraft page has updated itself to have a valid A check as of today and B check will follow tomorrow.

==> all ok and as expected.

=> Cannot replicate ... What else did you do?


edit: tested with multiple browsers, tested by clicking the confirm with mouse or just pressing enter to confirm/close the window, everything works and the A/B checks are immediately triggered to be performed.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 07:21:57 PM by sami »

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2015, 08:04:17 PM »
I tried replicating myself but can't. My path for this specific incident was remove the 332 from the market, rebate from IAH to JFK, swap previous 300GG, an A345HGW, to the 332, move 345HGW to the last remaining active 342 line.

In an attempt to recreate, I swapped another 332 to an idle 332 with expired checks and checks were performed as expected. Just took another 332 off the UM in IAH, rebased to JFK, and swapped an active 332 to it and as of now it looks like both checks will be performed.

I can't say why it is happening, but it is, not on every aircraft, but it is happening. The only other issue on my end that makes me wonder is the state of AWS on Chrome right now. Charts and buttons do not always load, so I woneed if some items behind the scenes may not be loading correctly?

I am using Chrome on a Surface Pro 3.
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Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2015, 08:19:19 PM »
And for some reason Saturday has come and gone and the 332 in question did not have a B check performed despite the check being expired and the B check scheduled for Saturdays.
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Offline Sami

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2015, 08:53:00 PM »
And for some reason Saturday has come and gone and the 332 in question did not have a B check performed despite the check being expired and the B check scheduled for Saturdays.

The B check ends on monday (starts on Sunday), so it will marked as performed on Monday. It is now tuesday and everything seems ok in that sector too.

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2015, 09:34:47 PM »
Yes, I see the B check has been performed.

So, these random missed checks are happening. It is not happening with every swap, though, which is making it hard to pin down. I have had it happen about 20 times in the last year, some I caught others I didn't and it has cost me about a half dozen ramp checks. If the system is working right, this shouldn't happen. Ever.

There is a simple solution to this problem that has been suggested in other threads covering this subject. It would involve the system checking a schedule when a swap occurs. If A and B checks are scheduled, it would prevent the  newly swapped aircraft from receiving any warning or ramp check violations, regardless of how overdue maintenance may be, for a period of 9 days, the maximum amount of time it would take for scheduled checks to complete. If the system as its programmed works properly 99% of the time, this becomes nothing more than a safety net.

Otherwise, I would be happy to spend a couple hours on the test server tomorrow with my GW1 airline just swapping planes to see if I can recreate this. Maybe it is a specific string of clicks, maybe it's a glitch that doesn't always show up, but something triggers this and I would really like to figure out what so it doesn't happen again.
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Offline Sami

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2015, 09:46:29 PM »
The only issue here is that either the A/B checkboxes have not been checked by the user, or the checkboxes never appear, or the checkbox action is not sent to the system while they are visible and have been checked by the user (or by the system automatically). If the system gets the action call to perform the checks at this point, they are properly performed, no issues there. But like I said, I cannot see it, even though I tested the exact same combo what you did.

I'd feel that this is a most likely browser issue ... (= the checkboxes appear, but for some reason aren't seen as checked when the form is sent out and the 'signal' never reaches the server, hence the checks are not performed.). Info on other platforms/browsers would be helpful (tested on Win7/Chrome too and no issues here).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 09:49:27 PM by sami »

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2015, 09:49:08 PM »
I can say that I never touched the check boxes for A/B checks. Whatever was checked upon clicking swap and selecting a destination aircraft is what was submitted. That is why I think it is some sort of a bug.
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Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2015, 09:55:06 PM »
Missed that browser part of your last reply. Im on a Surface Pro 3 using Chrome with Windows 10. And, as noted above, I am having issues with all buttons and charts showing up in Chrome with Windows 10. Its about a 50/50 chance that the scheduling buttons will show up on the scheduling page, and less that 50/50 if I will get passenger data and/or market share charts in airport and route pair data screens. I often get the "this chart type is not supported" error.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 10:02:45 PM by ZombieSlayer »
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Offline Sami

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2015, 05:09:35 PM »
what were the filters you chose in scheduling view when the error happened?

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2015, 09:51:57 PM »
I had A330/340 fleet group, JFK base only selected.
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Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2015, 09:52:53 PM »
The only issue here is that either the A/B checkboxes have not been checked by the user, or the checkboxes never appear, or the checkbox action is not sent to the system while they are visible and have been checked by the user (or by the system automatically). If the system gets the action call to perform the checks at this point, they are properly performed, no issues there. But like I said, I cannot see it, even though I tested the exact same combo what you did.

I'd feel that this is a most likely browser issue ... (= the checkboxes appear, but for some reason aren't seen as checked when the form is sent out and the 'signal' never reaches the server, hence the checks are not performed.). Info on other platforms/browsers would be helpful (tested on Win7/Chrome too and no issues here).

Schro, what were your specs when you first saw this happen back in December 2014?
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Offline schro

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2015, 10:03:15 PM »
Schro, what were your specs when you first saw this happen back in December 2014?

My complaint isn't necessarily that the checkboxes are not appearing, but more so that the application of the penalty is illogical. Specifically with checks that are not quite expired to the point the system won't put a A/B checkbox automatically on a schedule move, leading to penalties due to how the math works. I.e. A check is set to expire on Weds, you move a schedule on Saturday that contains a Friday or Saturday A check which causes that plane to fly for 1-2 days before the A check is made causing a ramp check (and the 3 day old A check will cause the A check now box not to be populated at the time of the schedule move).

Though, I did have to go hunting some over the past few weeks when i had planes showing with expired MX that were flying after doing large scale moves, but I don't specifically remember the root cause.

Offline Andre

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2015, 05:57:21 AM »
I've had issues with the scheduling page on Chrome and Windows 10 as well. If I scroll all the way down the screen, and up again.. sometimes the point I click on my screen is a different place on the screen. If that makes sense. I can attempt to add flights or MX to a plane, but it appears somewhere else or fails to apply. This has been happening for a while, but since I know what the problem is I can avoid it. Just thought maybe it was related. The Surface Pro 3 is a touch screen device.. are you using touch screen or mouse, ZombieSlayer? If you've been clicking checkboxes but it wasn't registered, maybe that explains some of it.

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Another Ramp Check due to AC swap....
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2015, 10:54:08 AM »
I use a Bluetooth mouse most of the time, and was using the mouse both times when the ramp checks occured. I am beginning to think that the Chrome/Windows 10 combo may be where the problem starts, though, as yesterday I went on a mini aircraft swap spree on my tablet and had no issues.
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