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Author Topic: [-] Used aircraft more expensive than new  (Read 223 times)

Offline Andre

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[-] Used aircraft more expensive than new
« on: November 20, 2015, 03:31:09 AM »
Game World #4

I want to use the L-1011 as an example. The L-1011 500 new price is now around 58 million USD. On the used market it goes for 65 million to 80 million by AI brokers. (No players are selling them). This wouldn't be a problem if I was able to buy the aircraft new, but I can't because of an artificial limit. It says I have too many aircraft on order. The extend leases option seems to calculate prices on what it's worth on the used market. Becauase when I extend the leases on my planes, the updated lease price on my 8 year old plane is the same as a brand new one from the factory. And since I can't buy new, used prices stay artificially high. This doesn't make any sense at all.

These artificial limits are really making the whole Airwaysim feel constrained and unnatural and less fun. I'm talking about the max planes on order and especially the fleet commonality bumps that are at several hundred percent. By adding constraints like this, other problems arise. Like the one I mentioned above. The reason I have so many planes on order is that I have to stick with so few types, due to the artificial fleet commonality limit. If I could add different fleet types, I wouldn't have to account for exchanging the fleets with deliveries 15-20 years into the future. So because of one artificial limit, it makes me run into another artificial limit. My hairs are turning gray. Please Sami, remove these limits. There's a thread from 2012 where you say you'll change the Fleet Commonality limit, but it's still the same.

Cheers,
Andre
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 09:23:14 AM by sami »

Offline schro

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Re: Used aircraft more expensive than new
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2015, 05:07:12 AM »
First of all, with respect to aircraft acquisition, I suggest a strong alliance that can assist you with that in a teamwork style manner.

Secondly, this is fairly old news that has been "fixed" a couple of times

http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,55530.msg320529.html
http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,56243.msg324739.html

Basically, used market pricing still won't follow new pricing....

Offline Sami

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Re: Used aircraft more expensive than new
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2015, 09:23:02 AM »
- The price of the used aircraft is calculated based on the specs of the aircraft, and when AI brokers list them they start first with a relatively high price but then the price goes down the longer the plane is sitting there on the market an being unsold. It also has a component that relates the price to new planes.

- Lease extensions are NOT calculated based on used aircraft market prices, but again based on the individual aircraft specs and the new aircraft price.

The pricing structure has been revisited several times and this is not a bug. In this case I'd suspect the L101 is in low demand from the new market and prices are low there (with very unpopular planes the prices can go quite low there..), and in higher demand from the used market since the planes probably won't sit in the used market very long for prices to drop so much. = The system is dynamic, and that is exactly what I am going for in most of the features.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 09:31:52 AM by sami »

Offline Andre

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Re: Used aircraft more expensive than new
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2015, 09:52:24 AM »
- The price of the used aircraft is calculated based on the specs of the aircraft, and when AI brokers list them they start first with a relatively high price but then the price goes down the longer the plane is sitting there on the market an being unsold. It also has a component that relates the price to new planes.

- Lease extensions are NOT calculated based on used aircraft market prices, but again based on the individual aircraft specs and the new aircraft price.

The pricing structure has been revisited several times and this is not a bug. In this case I'd suspect the L101 is in low demand from the new market and prices are low there (with very unpopular planes the prices can go quite low there..), and in higher demand from the used market since the planes probably won't sit in the used market very long for prices to drop so much. = The system is dynamic, and that is exactly what I am going for in most of the features.

Yes. The demand for the L-1011 is low at the moment. It was at more than 70 million for a while, now its down in the 50s. I like the prices being dynamic. The problem is that the new aircraft limit hinders me (and of course many others) from ordering replacement aircraft new.. which would then increase the new plane prices and decrease the used ones. It makes much more sense for me to buy a new plane at 58 million dollars, and use it for 8 years until my A330s arrive.. than to extend leases on an 8 year old plane for another 7.5 years and still pay roughly the same amount as a new aircraft. What bugs me is are the limits put in place. It feels annoying not to be allowed to run my airline like I want to.

I love Airwaysim and appreciate all the hard work you put into it Sami, which I've shown by buying credits for hundreds of Euros. I'm just really tired of the artificial limits. I think the market regulates itself best with fewer restrictions. And I'm sorry if this was the wrong place to post it, but I thought that the used market price was a bug from when you fixed it a while back.

Schro, thanks for the links. Yes I know.. our alliance is helping each other out with planes too, but could be better.  :)


Offline Sami

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Re: [-] Used aircraft more expensive than new
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2015, 09:54:08 AM »
The new plane limit has been in place for a longlong time and it could be revisited at some time. I think there was some talk about it at the feature rq forums (?).

Offline Andre

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Re: [-] Used aircraft more expensive than new
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2015, 10:07:18 AM »
Yes, I've bumped into it before.. it's just not hindered me as much as it does now. Seems like when you're at around 400 new plane orders, you can't order any more. But if you drop below that you could in theory order 200 more of them, leaving the totel order at 600. I think both the fleet commonality and new planes limits needs a new system. I know it's been discussed before.. but these limits have very strange side effects, such as airlines storing dozens of new built aircraft for years and years until they can swap out their entire fleet at once. And these two limits are connected, like I explained in my opening post. Anyway, thanks again for your hard work Sami.

Offline schro

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Re: [-] Used aircraft more expensive than new
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2015, 07:23:12 PM »
Perhaps there was a strategic error on the OP's part about ordering 325 of the same type, thus filling up most of his limit with planes that will take 20 years to deliver.  8) ;D

The new plane limit has been in place for a longlong time and it could be revisited at some time. I think there was some talk about it at the feature rq forums (?).

That discussion has been ongoing for ages. The 400 plane limit is a royal pain to deal with when you're buying planes for others, etc, to help them in-game.

 

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