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Author Topic: [-] Lease extension more costly than before  (Read 366 times)

Offline Andre

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[-] Lease extension more costly than before
« on: October 30, 2015, 10:06:19 AM »
I've noticed something strange. When I used to extend leases on my old 737-200adv with another 7.5 years, I would get a lower lease price than I had previously. Now when I try to extend leases with the same amount of time, the new lease price is higher. I've tested with other aircraft as well, such as the L-1011. I've noticed the effect is even worse when it's a newer airplane. My 737-300 with a 7.5 year lease on them goes from 280,000 USD monthly to 373,000 USD monthly if I try to extend with another 7.5 years. Did something change in the coding? I can't find any updates on it in the forums.


Game World #4
Blue Jet America

http://www.airwaysim.com/game/Info/Airline/View/668/174/#AirlineInfo
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 11:55:13 AM by sami »

Offline blackswan

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Re: Lease extension more costly than before
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2015, 11:00:34 AM »
Same issue here.

L101 old lease price 199 000 USD (new 331 500 USD)

regards,
tobi

Offline Andre

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Re: Lease extension more costly than before
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2015, 11:12:16 AM »
It seems like it uses a different parameter for value than before. It used to calculate from the price you paid for the airplane when you aquired it, now it might be calculated from market price? I don't know. Something is different.

Offline Sami

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Re: Lease extension more costly than before
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2015, 11:49:25 AM »
There was a bug in the manual lease extension calculation that was fixed some days ago, it's correct now. (automatic extension was always calculating correctly)

Tested on your 737-200adv, age 7yr. Lease remaining 4 months, current lease 190k. Extend by 1 year, new lease is 199k. Extend by 8 years, new lease is 170k.

If you originally got a very good deal for the plane when ordering new, then the extended price may be considerably higher than you paid previously. Depends on the deal you got the plane, inflation, and the popularity of the type (among others).
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 11:55:30 AM by sami »

Offline Andre

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Re: [-] Lease extension more costly than before
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2015, 01:59:30 PM »
Okay that was my suspicion. It makes sense that the extended leases are calculated after the value and demand of the aircraft and not the original purchase price. Thanks for looking into it Sami.

Offline schro

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Re: [-] Lease extension more costly than before
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2015, 03:40:18 PM »
Calculating extensions based on current value makes no sense whatsoever. If the intention of the owner is to lease atbsay, above or below calculated "market" values, then that intention should not be reinterpreted automatically at lease extension time. Sure, renewals should be readjusted for plane age as it gets older, but effectively resetting lease prices upon renewal makes for some whacked game play and will force owners to stop allowing lease renewals and have to micromanage stuff in order to continue leasing above the calculated values.

That would mean that you could lease a plane that's offered at the maximum allowed for the shortest term, then the auto renewal will drop it to market price, making it rip for abuse from plane renters.

On the flip side, noobs that lease cheap planes relative to calculated value will be boiled frog style when their lease costs jump upon renewal....

If anything, there should be an adjustment to renewal price based in the difference between leased price and calculated values that were in place at the initial lease implementation.

Offline Sami

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Re: [-] Lease extension more costly than before
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2015, 05:35:56 PM »
Calculating extensions based on current value makes no sense whatsoever.

The formula for extension price is the same as it always has been, the bug was that the manual renewals did not factor the age in properly (was a negative value causing too low values).
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 05:38:25 PM by sami »

Offline Andre

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Re: [-] Lease extension more costly than before
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2015, 11:47:25 PM »
I need some clarification. What are the extended lease prices based on? Is it the current market value of the aircraft? Like you said, if I got a great deal to begin with and their demand/popularity and inflation has gone up later, the extended lease price will be much higher?

Offline Sami

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Re: [-] Lease extension more costly than before
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2015, 04:18:13 AM »
Factors are (in no particular order here):

 - Aircraft's original (= no popularity adjustment) list price (inflation adjusted)
 - Aircraft's current (= with popularity adjustment) list price (inflation adjusted)
 - Age
 - Condition
 - Current lease price

When considering renewals of a long, let's say 8 year lease, the change in inflation is the biggest single factor. 200k is not the same as 200k 8 years back. But users of 'unpopular' types have the edge here since if the plane is not in high demand then also the renewal price will be smaller, compared to if the plane would have let's say 500 new orders... (= again, normal dynamism that we seek and wish to steer players to think outside of the box)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 04:30:47 AM by sami »

Offline Andre

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Re: [-] Lease extension more costly than before
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2015, 10:31:36 AM »
Thanks, I understand. The thinking outside the box is something I try to do, but the fleet type commonality limit bump is going to be even more restrictive now. If your aircraft type suddenly is 30% more expensive to renew leases on, and you have 100 of them in service.. you'd want to switch to something else but you can't. Because of a pure fantasy bump when hitting 4 and 7 fleet types. So then you're trapped.

I'm no expert, but a lessor in the real world would consider that the aircraft is already paid down in full right? The lessors calculate that they'll get return on their investment and a profit in an 8 - 12 year lease term? After that everything is pure profit. Are the AI lessors actual companies in AirwaySim? Do they have a budget?

 

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