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Author Topic: How does competition work?  (Read 2025 times)

Offline Ligo

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How does competition work?
« on: May 02, 2015, 10:06:33 PM »
I have a route with route image 57. My B721 overcover passengers demand at about 15%. I have a marketing company (news, radio and billboards) and price decrease 15%. I also have a convinient morning time of departure and arrival.

A competitor starts a B732 on this route with departure at 2:40 and arrival at 6 a.m. And in several months he gets share of 19%. But why? How to get from 64 to 80% loadfill in this situation? Why do people chose a competitor company with the unconvinient departure time? Or it is normal to set price 50% to get share and it is the only key business driver?

Offline knobbygb

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2015, 10:05:18 AM »
It could depend on other factors than those you have told us.

As well as the route image - what is your company image?  If you are getting low load factors it could be because your CI is low due to delays/cancellations etc.  Does the competitor have a much higher CI than you?  If the route image is only 57% after several months then you are maybe doing something wrong such as too short turnaround times.  Really ALL your routes should have 100% route image once they have been running for a few months.  RI will rise more quickly with marketing but should always reach 100%, unlike CI. which will peak at a certain value.

But - I think what you are saying is that the competitor has only 19% of the share of the route so you then have 81%.  That's pretty good actually for two similar sized aircraft - pretty typical considering his poor departure times.

Post some screenshots to make your question clearer if you like.

Offline Ligo

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2015, 07:51:30 PM »
thank you for a very detailed answer. Really, You named my problem - short turnaround... It was so attractive to put three routes per plane instead of two routes and to put two instead of one on medium distances:)) therefore delays are usual in my timeline... the consequent question:
What is more effective: three routes per day per plane with short turnaround or two routes only with no hurry? I guess that on a high cometitive market 2 routes per plane would be preferable then.

Offline knobbygb

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2015, 02:15:10 PM »
I would say never, ever do short turnarounds. Well, maybe chop 5 or 10 minutes here or there if you really need to make a schedule work, but always go for the "1% chance of delay" where possible.  If saving 10 or 15 minutes is enough to make a difference between 2 or 3 routes per day - change your scheduling around and be more creative.

The short turnaround will cause delays and stop your company image growing which will loose you passengers on ALL your other routes, even the ones that are well scheduled with lots of spare time.  If you're doing your scheduling correctly, your on time performance (from the statistics page) should be over 90% and more like 95% most of the time. With your 727s you need 1hr15 minutes at each end of the route.

I was a little worried about what you mean by "medium distances".  Generally I would say that with short-haul jets you should be looking at three routes per day per aircraft if your location allows and destinations are available. (HA- I've just looked and realised that you are guy who has started in Luxur.  I am in Cairo so we are sort of competitors so maybe I shouldn't be helping you so much. I was just about to open a base at Luxor when you started.  I promise to hold off - at least for a while!)  Anyway, my general plan for short-haul jets is one long overnight route and then either two shorter routes in the day or one other long route.  I suspect in Egypt you'll be going down the latter route as there are many long routes to cover.  Try to keep each aircraft in the air for as long as possible. For a 727 that is 21.5hrs per day with two routes.  Choose the routes wisely by length (and time zone) to ensure you use each aircraft to the max. A leased aircraft, while sat on the ground, is not only making you no profit but is costing you money a small airline can ill afford.

Offline Ligo

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2015, 08:59:28 AM »
Thanks for Your advices! And thanks for the time opportunity, you gave to me:) In fact, I also considered Cairo as my second base and refused these minds:) I came here too late:)
I plan to gain game experience in this world simulation maximum for one month more when GW4 will restart from 1952. I will switch there after. So if You give me a chance to play in GW1 two or three real time weeks more (or until I become a bankrupt:) I would be very thankful.

Offline Ligo

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2015, 09:14:24 AM »
And for sure, it will be also an experience when my company become a bancrupt after you open a base in Luxor:) just give me some more time, please.

Online tdf42

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2015, 12:39:47 AM »
My CI stays at 49-50. I spend close to 5M a month marketing and it never rises. Does the small airline factor (54 planes) hit me even though I fly bigger single aisle A/C and not props?

Offline tise1983

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2015, 01:08:10 AM »
I have a question, are all the worlds designed after the real world data?  I mean if I open a base in Spokane Washington, is there ever a chance that if I build a good airline it will become a major international hub?  Or is it all modeled after the real world?  I mean look at what happened to Charlotte in the real world and vise versa with Pittsburgh...I mean if Pittsburgh had not raised their slot fees in the real world, Charlotte would never had become a hub for USAIR.  I guess what I am asking, is regardless of the city size, if the airport is significant or higher, and you bring more traffic, does it grow in the game? or just match real world supply/demand? In this game will  I ever fly a route from Spokane to Tokyo/Narita?

I am new to this game...

Offline dmoose42

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2015, 02:15:45 AM »
Under the current passenger allocation system, airport PAX demand is relatively fixed. So currently no you can't develop Spokane into a viable hub in the way you describe and no Spokane to Narita will never be viable.

However, under city-based demand which is under development, there would be this possibility as PAX allocation would not be determined on the fixed airport to airport basis it is now, but rather on location to location. Under this scenario, if you can offer a viable alternative (i.e., cheaper?) connecting alternative it would be possible to grow Pittsburgh back into a hub (but probably not Spokane.. :D :D :D :D)

Offline tise1983

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2015, 01:06:22 AM »
Thanks, that would make this game perfect!  Because ultimately that is how it should be, I mean in the real world Charlotte is the destination for about 1% of the fliers, I mean if a player is a good mananger, theoretically they should be able to make any airport a hub in this game...since it is a game...otherwise it is just who gets the slots at the know busy airports first...which is kinda dumb, but this game is still fun, only been playing 2 weeks, but i like it, just lame that you base airport doesn't grow if you manage it well.  LEt's take the Spokane option, I mean as traffic increases, so should slots and slot prices, and eventually it should be a hub...but I realize it wont, its just an example...But if 30 years ago we made this game, and we said, Charlotte is gonna be one of the big airports in america...you woulda been laughed outta there...

Offline tise1983

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2015, 01:11:10 AM »
If someone is flying From Atlanta to say San Fran...and Company X charges for a direct flight 900$, but compnay Y charges 300 from ATL to DFW, then 400 from DFW to SFO, then the game should route some, not all players through DFW...Does that happen currently, or is it just city to city?

Offline tise1983

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2015, 02:55:56 AM »
Also, I just opened my 4th route, and my employees, jumped from 101 to 151...Why so much for just one more route?  If 3 routes can run with 101 people, why did the 4th route not just jump employee count to 120 or 130?  If I add a 5th Route will it jump another 50 employees to 201?

I guess what I am asking, does the number of aircraft determine the number of employees? or does the number of routes? Or both?  How do we know how many employees will be added if buying an aircraft or opening another route?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 03:08:33 AM by tise1983 »

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2015, 03:09:58 AM »
If someone is flying From Atlanta to say San Fran...and Company X charges for a direct flight 900$, but compnay Y charges 300 from ATL to DFW, then 400 from DFW to SFO, then the game should route some, not all players through DFW...Does that happen currently, or is it just city to city?

Right now, the passengers don't connect.  The demand between airports is fixed.  So currently, the more cities you connect, you are not really creating a hub, you are serving distinct demand between the airports.

Passenger connectivity may arrive at some point in the future.  There is a thread called City Based Demand in Feature Request forum that talks about it quite a bit.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2015, 03:14:06 AM »
Also, I just opened my 4th route, and my employees, jumped from 101 to 151...Why so much for just one more route?  If 3 routes can run with 101 people, why did the 4th route not just jump employee count to 120 or 130?  If I add a 5th Route will it jump another 50 employees to 201?

I guess what I am asking, does the number of aircraft determine the number of employees? or does the number of routes? Or both?  How do we know how many employees will be added if buying an aircraft or opening another route?

The number of aircraft scheduled determines the number of employees.  The employees get hired once you schedule a route for the aircraft.  The more routes you are flying, the more employees get hired.

As far as the rate of increase of staff, there is some formula that lowers the requirement for the first couple of aircraft (to make it easier to start) but at some point, the full staffing kicks in.

Offline tise1983

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2015, 03:26:38 AM »
Thanks for the info, I think Airline Tycoon2, which is pretty bad, has the passenger demand liquid, not just fixed...matter of fact this game is pretty similar to that one...but lacking in a few departments...Thanks for the help! :)

Offline tise1983

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2015, 03:32:31 AM »
Also, does when you schedule your maintenance effect employee count?  If i do checks on Sunday for all aircraft, does that kick the maintenance personnel up?  Do I need to Stagger Checks?

Offline tise1983

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2015, 03:34:38 AM »
Holy Crap, I just opened my 5th route and employees jumped to 220...wow...wish I woulda stayed at 3 routes...

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2015, 04:01:29 AM »
Regarding schedule of maintenance, no currently the system does not have any kind of maintenance schedule for maintenance workers.  So there is no benefit to spreading your checks throughout the week, and no penalty to your entire fleet going into A/B/C/D check at the same time. 

I think it was discussed as one of the possible enhancements.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2015, 04:10:39 AM »
As far as staffing, there is the flight crew (pilots, cabin crew) that goes up in aircraft increments (mostly).  So scheduling 1x 5 hour flight pretty much hires the full crew to operate the aircraft 24/7.  If you then fill up the schedule up to 16-20 hours, flight crew does not change much.

The rest of the staff is more route related.  There may be a bigger jump to adding the first flight to the schedule, but there will be incremental hires for every additional flight you add to the schedule of the same aircraft.

Different sized of aircraft have different staffing requirements.  For Very Large Aircraft, I think the system hires about 10x for every flight crew position.  So let's say the aircraft needs 2 pilots, it will hire 20.  The system assumes that a Very Large Aircraft is operating 24/7

The smaller aircraft have smaller multiple.  For example, the assumption is that Regional Aircraft flies fewer hours, you don't need 2 sets of crew to make a round trip etc.  So for 2 pilot positions of Medium aircraft, you will not end up hiring 20, but fewer.

Offline tise1983

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Re: How does competition work?
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2015, 06:39:05 AM »
@Jumbo - I am only flying CRJ100 and 200 and my 5th route hired 35 people to run it...a CRJ...i mean come on
And yes the passenger levels are kinda weird, but they have been explained, hopefully the fix that was discussed earlier is implemented...I mean if my route is cheaper but has a lay over or connection at a hub, customers will choose that option over a pricier non-stop version, not all passengers but some...I mean Airlines should drive the market, or create it, not the cities only, i mean it is population size, but it is also runway length, amount of gates, and connecting flights...not just some pre=programmed number of people based off what data?  Anyway, I am new, this game is nice and enjoyable, and Thanks for the responses!

Also is it worth getting a second base city with the minimum of 5 planes?

 

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